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Topic Subject:Amazon Total War - Reignited
ParthianShot
Legionary
posted 11 July 2011 01:50 EDT (US)         
Thanks to great helps from Terikel Grayhair and Edorix.

My partner and I can finally publish facets of the new Amazon Total War Reignited mod with graphics.

I also want to thank Edorix for his suggestion on the logic for naming this mod. And I used this logic to come up with the name Amazon Total War – Reignited

To re-cap. I enclosed the excerpts from previous discussion here:

Hi,

This is to announce a new Amazon Total War mod in progress. I have obtained permission through TG and Edorix to use Ares and Subrosa's mod as a base to create a new Amazon Total War mod. I have also received Subrosa's personal blessing to proceed with this mod. This mod is to be remain as a submod of the original masterpiece, the Amazon Total War.

The New Sub-Mod is called Amazon TW Reignited. Most models with new skins are already completed. Text and maps are being re-aligned as I type this message.

This is from a private message I sent earlier...

I have a new mod of ATW, Re-ignited, and reluctantly stating that, yes, it does have both male and female nudity for a more historically accurate depiction of combact around from 400-250bc.

Here are some major changes from previous Subrosa and Ares7667 ATW mods.

The premises of the new mod are as follows:

1. At around 270BC, unless your faction is a large empire with great commerce power and technological development (Rome and Carthage come to mind), clothing and armors are expensive and time consuming to produce, so neat attires are luxury most factions simply can not afford unless the combat unit is aristocratic or patrician based. I saw in the previous Amazon TW releases where a small town of 700 population with a blacksmith shop can create a 100+ soldier combat unit complete with chain mails suits, shields, helmets, and weapons, and I asked myself, perhaps I can do a more structured and more realistic unit recruiting than that.

2. chain mail is very very expensive to produce and as such it should not be too widely available to units.

3. After Subrosa and others started their brilliant Amazon TW mods, many archeological finds have since proved that perhaps Amazons are not just in the Greek myths. So it makes sense to have an updated version to reflect a less fantasy based Total War mod and such mod should be dedicated to ancient matriarchal society.

4. Many armor designs for the line fighting units at the time are frontal armors and not all-around armor suits, which really are reserved for aristocratic or patrician units only. Historically speaking, the old thinking was that a fighting line unit with their back less protected would be less reluctant to turn their back towards the enemy and run away. Also such measure would save the governing entity a great deal of expense on armor procurement. For units wearing frontal-only armors, their protection value are re-evaluated to reflect such changes.

5. All the units' hit points, protection value and so on, should be based on sound calculation of the unit's recruited personnel, equipment, fighting style, missile weapon. A unit should not possess an arrow hit power twice as much as the next unit on the roster, simply because the unit is an elite unit. Any unit's parameter should be based on good systematic and technical evaluation. For example, if an Amazon unit has a double bow, then it makes sense to have such a bow with twice the hitting power. Or if an archer's unit shoot iron tipped or iron encased lead bolt, then it makes sense that the range can be much farther than an arrow with wooden shaft.

6. Horses in ancient times are really glorified ponies, usually no more than 12 hands tall (or 48 inches approximately 120cm). This gives women great advantages as cavalry soldiers due to their more petite body frame and less body weight. So this mod have more women cavalry units in more factions. Also their armor and number in the projectile store should be more than the men's cavalry unit of equivalent mount.

7. Bronze armors are more proliferated than iron. And tougher than most would give them credit for. Even in modern days, the Beryllium Bronze alloy and other similar copper alloys can achieve 90% hardness of the best steel. So in regions short of iron resources, most units should only have arrow tips, swords, or axes made out of iron. The rest of equipment should be copper alloy based instead. The iron can easily rust away, so the units equipped with iron armors will have higher up-keep costs. With chain-mail to be the most expensive to maintain.

Base one the aforementioned premises here are the major changes in the ATA Re-Ignited mod...

. Use of chain mails has been sharply curtailed. My calculation shows that in 250BC, it would cost 10,000 man hours by a skillful metal smith to create a complete suit of chain mail armor. Chain mail in this submod is used mostly for limb armor as well as linking the pieces between major armors plate or coats.

. Armors are shown not to be perfect fit like the previous Amazon Mods, as most armors issued out of any royal armory would hardly be called custom tailored. (See the Amazon Winged Maiden's picture example below)



where as, most patrician or arsitocratic units whose recruits can afford their own custom tailored armors, the fitting would be better. [see the sample picture below]




. The four Amazon factions are Geothe (Jiazii), Thyss (Thyssgetae), Libyan, and Amazonia.

Unlike the Subrosa mods, there are no Amazons based in British Isles, or Valkyrja in the Central Russia. Instead I have the Jiazii and the Thyss who are ancient Amazon tribes originally guarding the Caucasus Gates but they have since been scattered. The Libyan Amazons are the Gorgons in the previous mods, but their skins are now less of the Africana persuasion, unless the Libyan units are local Nubian recruits. Otherwise, the Libyan skins are more sun-tanned versions of other Amazon factions.

The Amazonia remain where there are and are mostly left unchanged except the infantry units are less fantastical and there are more cavalry units added.

. In general, many more Amazon cavalry units are created and foot units reduced. As a matter of fact the primary advantage of the Amazons in this mod would be their use of small mobile forces with great fire power.

. bronze armored units have less upkeeping cost because the bronze alloys are less prone to rust away.

. like the Sarmatians and the Scythians in previous Amazon mods, Carthage and Iberia now have female units drawn from their temple vestal virgins as recruits. Since in the legend Carthage is founded by Queen Diddo, I think there ought to be more female warrior representation than the original RTW afforded this faction. However, unlike the Amazon units, these are more of the militia type units.

. Macedon now has regular supply of Amazon cavalry as well as foot archer units, Thrace and Seleucid now have frontier Amazon horse archers.

. Nudity: many of the light units are naked, female and male warriors alike. To reflect the cost factor of equipping such units.

. Elephant units are now available to all Amazon factions, not just the Africana (Libya) faction.

. Big surprise with the use of fire.

. Also some missile units have long range capabilities due to the use of mano-ballista, double loaded bow, and shooting of iron casing lead bolt which is far more ballistically efficient than arows with wooden shaft.

. Only Armenia, Libyan Amazon, Carthage, Iberia, Rome, Gaul, German, Seleucid, and Celts are deemed iron rich, the rest of the factions are more reliant on bronze armors for protection. Their swords, spear tip, or arrow tip, still remain to be iron.

. Cost and upkeep of iron armored units are increased exponentially higher.

. Only aristocratic units have full armor, their cost also reflects the expense to make such armor.

. The peasant rebel is the least properly attired. The regular units are somewhat better. The mercenary units are the best equipped and attired of all units.

. All the Amazon units are now less Hellenized. Their armor and helmets are more Central Asian style than Greek. So Corinthian helmets are mostly replaced by conical shaped helmet. Lamellar (scale) armors are more common than plate mail or chain mail. Many are coat mail (or brigandine) armors.

. Cavalry units are re-calibrated to show weight constraints. For example, it is not likely to have a mounted lighthorse unit with heavy shield, instead they would use Pelta or wicker shields riding a horse which is slightly larger than a pony. Only heavy cavalry troopers can carry heavy shields. Women cavalry can carry slightly heavier armor or equipment due to female's more petite frame and less body weight. In each new unit description I would try to describe their equipment to justify the defensive and offensive ratings of such units.

- Only the Armenia, Rome, Cartage, Iberia, Celts, and Gaul have full iron chain mail units.

TO BE WORKED ON:

. Some archery missile units shooting wooden shafts should be more restricted on number of arrows available unless they are from a region where wood is plentiful and their technological advance can afford lath technology to allow straight arrow shafts to be mass-produced.

. Some RTW units as well as the units from previous mods need to be less dressed.

On a personal note, I believe this mod is well worth the play time because in my experience, the RTW sometimes has more visual clarity than even the latest Shogun II if the mods have the 512x512 skin instead of 256x256.

I am pretty sure the Shogun II and many CA's fine TW games after RTW are much more advanced in many ways and I have tried them all.

But I feel that RTW still has plenty to offer, and this is why my partner and I decided to create an Amazon Mod for RTW. Not to mention that this mod has been worked on since 2005.

Shown below are other sample units

Amazon Lighthorse Virgin Archers



Amazon Demi-Lancer



I just set up an online album and put up some pictures for everyone to see.

Here are some sample snapshot from the battle scene, hopefully it gives some idea about the mod.

WARNING! The Snapshot Below might contain female upper torso nudity in ancient combat scenario. If you are offended by such graphic display or if your local law prohibits you for any reason from viewing such content, please do not continue.

Amazon Brigandine Cavalry Ready For Battle

[JPEG, (264.98 KB)]

Amazon Virgin Archer Melee

[JPEG, (266.06 KB)]

Amazon Brigantine Cavalry Charging Rebel Line

[JPEG, (325.48 KB)]

Amazon Smashing Enemy Line

[JPEG, (475.03 KB)]

Amazon Brigandine Archers Surrounded

[JPEG, (269.72 KB)]

Amazon Demi Lancer Melee

[JPEG, (338.99 KB)]

Night Raid of The Winged Maiden

[JPEG, (248.26 KB)]

The Fall Of A King

[JPEG, (369.15 KB)]

Night Battle Of The General

[JPEG, (245.29 KB)]

The Last Stand Of The Amazon Axe Legion

[JPEG, (297.97 KB)]

Virgin Horse Archer Vanguishing The Foe

[JPEG, (282.39 KB)]

Annihilation of The Macedon

[JPEG, (266.64 KB)]

Carnage At The Tanais Bridge

[JPEG, (269.25 KB)]

Battle Of The Virgin Light Archers

[JPEG, (242.49 KB)]

Charge of The Guards

[JPEG, (321.73 KB)]

Amazon Militia Ready for Siege

[JPEG, (250.96 KB)]

Charge Of The Amazon Grenadier

[JPEG, (312.55 KB)]

Night March of The Guards

[JPEG, (197.84 KB)]

Attack Of The Amazon Elephant Troop

[JPEG, (307.27 KB)]

Battle Review of The Virgin Light Lancers

[JPEG, (232.09 KB)]


Battle Review of The Halberdiers

[JPEG, (235.60 KB)]

Skull Maiden vs. the SnakeHead Mercenary

[JPEG, (330.21 KB)]

Amazon Virgin Archers Breaching Rebel Line

[JPEG, (276.50 KB)]

[This message has been edited by ParthianShot (edited 07-18-2011 @ 03:36 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Kilos of Thermon
Legionary
posted 11 July 2011 09:21 EDT (US)     1 / 8       
This looks really cool! Do you have a download anywhere? I would love to play this. Oh, and did you change the other factions at all? Remember that if nothing else, you can always email it to me.

Oh, and I sorta know the reason why, but some of your amazons look weird, due to the fact that they have no nipples. I think some of the RTW units have those, and without them your amazons just look like they have humps sticking out of their body.

Edit: nevermind about the other factions thing.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Cattle die, kinsmen die, the self must also die. I know one thing that never dies: the fate of the honored dead. Hávamál, Gestaţáttr, #77.

[This message has been edited by Kilos of Thermon (edited 07-11-2011 @ 09:22 AM).]

ParthianShot
Legionary
posted 11 July 2011 10:48 EDT (US)     2 / 8       
Regarding the appearance being "au naturel" or not, lets just say that the snapshots were taken at 1920x1200 and then shrank to 1024x330

in other words it is the loading screen resolution of RTW, so much of the details are lost.

On the photobucket album you can see for yourself what some of the units look like.

Please view this with discretion, the same disclaimer from the original post applies

http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n597/string_muse/?action=view¤t=ChargeOfTheVirginCavalry.jpg

Regarding the changes in other factions, any factions with female units have been re-skinned for two reasons.

1. to keep the maximum number of battle models under the limitation of 256 slots.
2. to keep the theoretical unit cost under control.

the units affected are

- Celtic and Gaulic women javelin cavalry
- axe women of various factions
- barb women archers of various factions
- sarmatian and scythian female units
- added noblewomen and noblemaiden unit to Parthia
- added noble maiden cataphract unit to Armenia
- added 4 vestal virgin units to Iberia and Carthage.
one lancer,
one horse archer,
one foot spear
and one foot archer unit.
- added Amazon Foreign Legion unit to Macedon
one armored archer unit
one mounted archer unit

- Rebel has access to nearly all the new female units.

The cheating elephants and female gladiator are gone to save the precious model slots.

[This message has been edited by ParthianShot (edited 07-14-2011 @ 11:54 PM).]

wheeliepaul
Legionary
posted 12 July 2011 12:18 EDT (US)     3 / 8       
Wow, you can be proud on your work so far. Looks very very good. I am sure this game is fun to play and play I will as soon i can download your game
ParthianShot
Legionary
posted 12 July 2011 16:20 EDT (US)     4 / 8       
Thank You For your words of encouragement.

I think the mod is a good addition to the community.

We are hitting a snag right now. Because someone messaged me saying that we don't have the proper authorization to use some of the name as well as prior artwork for this mod. So we decided to wait for the definitive clearance to go ahead.

Also there does not seem to be a big crowd aware of this mod, so if you can spread the word, or if you know some ways to get the news out to people about this mod, please feel free to let me know.

[This message has been edited by ParthianShot (edited 07-12-2011 @ 05:53 PM).]

Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 13 July 2011 13:56 EDT (US)     5 / 8       
I have contacted SubRosa again (it was to me she originally gave ParthianShot permission to mod her ATW).

Hopefully I can get these two brilliant modders to speak directly and end any doubt whatsoever as to the lawful continuance of this mod.

As to spreading the word, when I return from the forests wilds of Norway, I shall see what I can do regarding posting newsies, informing other staff, and generally making a lot of noise in modding forums here and there to drum up some action.

(I have the memory of a goldfish, so please drop an email in about 7-10 days reminding me of this promise )

|||||||||||||||| A transplanted Viking, born a millennium too late. |||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Too many Awards to list in Signature, sorry lords...|||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Listed on my page for your convenience and envy.|||||||||||||||||
Somewhere over the EXCO Rainbow
Master Skald, Order of the Silver Quill, Guild of the Skalds
Champion of the Sepia Joust- Joust I, II, IV, VI, VII, VIII

[This message has been edited by Terikel Grayhair (edited 08-23-2011 @ 06:51 AM).]

Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 14 July 2011 13:29 EDT (US)     6 / 8       
I hear rumors there are some who think this project has not followed the proper procedures in obtaining permission from those whose work form the basis of this project.

I would lay these rumors to rest once and for all. I have personally contacted both SubRosa and Ares and obtained from both their blessings and permissions to use thier products. This permission I passed on to ParthianShot. (For those who have not already figured it out, I am the third party ParthianShot refers to above).

I have also received permission to quote SubRosa's permission below and post it openly here:
Parthian Shot, I love the name. So long as she credits the work I did, she can go ahead and use it.
ParthianShot has done everything by the book so far- asked first, received permissions, and then posted and worked. I can vouch for the authenticity of the permissions.

If anyone has a problem with this now, please take it up with me. I will try not to stomp on you too hard, though I do have big feet.

|||||||||||||||| A transplanted Viking, born a millennium too late. |||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Too many Awards to list in Signature, sorry lords...|||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Listed on my page for your convenience and envy.|||||||||||||||||
Somewhere over the EXCO Rainbow
Master Skald, Order of the Silver Quill, Guild of the Skalds
Champion of the Sepia Joust- Joust I, II, IV, VI, VII, VIII
ParthianShot
Legionary
posted 18 July 2011 13:07 EDT (US)     7 / 8       
Just let everyone know the progress of this mod.

1. Resolved the Subrosa's permission issue, even got an email from her to give me and my partner her blessing. The complaints turned out to be from an old friend of hers who thought there is no way she would have given her permission. And I have forwarded this friend Subrosa's email so we can continue the work.

2. Still need two permission from two acquaintances for the use of their model files.

3. Still needs to create missile projectile type determined by the temple type. This is a huge undertaking as far as testing is concerned and once it is done we are almost ready.

[This message has been edited by ParthianShot (edited 07-18-2011 @ 03:25 PM).]

ParthianShot
Legionary
posted 16 August 2011 12:06 EDT (US)     8 / 8       
Hi! This is to let everyone know that an Alpha version of this mod is finally available.

There has been extensive testing but we are tired of fixing bugs. Just kidding.

There is still one scripting issue where the Libyan Amazon can not switch their units to the new ones, like an Amazon version of the Marian reform. This will be fixed in the subsequent release.

But as soon as I can find a place to upload the mod folder to, it would be considered published.
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