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Topic Subject:An Article On Vassalage MTW2 [Uploaded]
sebinshaolin
Legionary
posted 24 May 2011 01:08 EDT (US)         
This will be my first article in Heaven Games. This will also be my first gaming article because even though I write many Philosophical articles never thought of writing an game article. Well sure the custom of awarding titles was quiet inspirational. So I hope that all the members of this site will support me in this venture.

Well most of the players are crazy about having vassals in MTW2, so I have decided to write an article on vassalage. It also seems that no one else have written an article on that. I here by announce that I have chosen the topic of vassalage and have begun working on it. I will soon most probably today itself start the work so other writes choose some other topic if at all you are planning to write on vassalage.



VASSALAGE












TABLE OF CONTENTS

  • INTRODUCTION
  • BASIC THINGS TO GET A VASSAL
  • ROLE OF YOUR KING AND RELATED TIPS
  • AGENTS AND RELATED TIPS
  • REPUTATION AND RELATED TIPS
  • THINGS TO BE KEPT IN MIND WHILE TRYING TO GET A VASSAL


    INTRODUCTION

    I have already posted a short introduction so I will try to make this one as brief as possible. I was introduced to the total war series through Rome Total War and later started playing Medieval Total War 2. In RTW there was an diplomatic option become protectorate but it was solely determined by the amount of cash that you can offer.(Since diplomats gain traits at an astonishing rate).

    In the case of MTW2 it different because different aspects are taken into account so I shall be detailing about these aspects and how to improve them in the later sections.

    BASIC THINGS TO GET A VASSAL

    Here I will mention the primary steps to be followed to get a vassal, most of my reader will be aware of these steps but still I am adding this section for those who have never even tried to get a vassal and know nothing about it. Please note that if you do not follow the things mentioned here you will not succeed in making a faction your vassal as the info in the following sections will only increase the chances of you getting a vassal. Beat down the faction you want to make your vassal to 1-2 settlement. Make sure that the last remaining 1 or 2 settlements are surrounded by your territories OR make sure that there last settlement(s) are near the sea with their ports blockaded.This will result in a heavy hit on their economy.
    Factions whose power is weak or very weak (pathetic would be ideal) will only accept to become a vassal naturally no one would want to bow before another when you are strong enough. Economy should be shattered before attempting to make a faction your vassal. Taking a few full banner armies to stand near the last of their settlements too is a good idea though not compulsory as it cause devastation again shattering the enemy economy.


    ROLE OF THE KINGS AND RELATED TIPS

    The reputation of your King is a quite decisive factor when you try to make a faction your vassal.To be specific other factions will more easily agree to become your vassal if you have a chivalrous King rather than a Dreadful King.

    Tip to make your King chivalrous

    The most effective, sure-shot and quick way to make our King chivalrous is to sent him on a crusade. While sending him take care that you sent him to a near by place so that you can save certain number of turns wasted on traveling. I often persuade the pope to call a crusade on a near by rebel settlement for this propose. Persuading the Pope have many advantages. Firstly you can fight a rebel or an enemy of your faction rather than making a neutral faction your enemy (Usually when pope calls a crusade you are forced to declare war on that faction if at all you wish to join the crusade). Secondly you can specify a near by settlement saving a few turn of journey.

    These are the Retinue and Traits Gained from a successful crusade

    Retinue:
    Hospitaller Knight, +1 chivalry, +1 command
    Templar Knight, +1 chivalry, +1 command (In some cases you do not get 2 retinue like in the case of HRE where you sometimes only get Teutonic Knight)

    Traits:
    Grand Crusader, +3 chivalry, +3 piety, +3 Command

    Last thing on crusades is that never send the same person again on a crusade because he will not get bonus retinue and trait since he already own it.The Pope may some time request for the same person in, that case you may be forced to assign that general to crusade but make sure that you have another crusading army and that army will do the fighting.

    That's all concerning crusade, but calling a crusade will not always be possible so there are certain other ways to make the King chivalrous and also certain things to be followed to maintain the chivalry of your King.

    When your King is leading a battle never execute the prisoners, releasing them will gain you chivalry, while ransoming them will prevent you from gaining dread and will also earn you some cash or if the opposition rejects ransom offer, you can execute the prisoners without gaining dread. Do not exterminate captured settlements this seems to reduce the chivalry of the King where as slaking do not have a crucial hit on the King's traits, unless the King himself is the General of the battle. Even reducing the tax of the settlement where the King rules can produce quite good results.( Tough I personally do not much recommend it if you are using version 1.0.0.0 of the games since the effect is not quiet worth the money you forgo in that case). Using Assassins have a harmful effect on your Kings chivalry as it gains you dread. I have seen people who think successful assassination do not cause the king to gain dread, but this is not at all true. Successful assassinations too reduce the chivalry of the King at like -1 chivalry for every 2 successful assassinations or sometimes even for 1 successful assassination. So to make your King chivalrous for going your assassins is an indispensable part.

    AGENTS AND RELATED TIPS


    To make other faction your vassal is a diplomatic dealing for that you obviously should have good diplomats.
    Diplomats with higher influence are bound to extremely useful particularly to negotiate a client kingdom agreement.Once I was playing as England and was running out of turn, like I needed 15 territories in 6 turns, this is quiet a difficult task. Then I had a high ranking diplomat I sent him to negotiate vassalage with Spain which had like around 7 settlements and quiet formidable power. Still they agreed to become my vassal for a meager 15,000 florins.Thus that diplomat did saved the day.I hope now it is as clear as a crystal how, good diplomats can be a treasure when coming to vassalage negotiation.

    Tips on Diplomats

    To train a good diplomat is a very difficult task and your only agent who can enter negotiation other than the diplomats are princesses who are even more difficult to train. Further more there is no guilds for diplomats in the game (that is quiet natural when relating to the medieval times history.). There is actually no sure shot way to get a great diplomat, in this aspect luck surely plays a huge role.

    One way to train a good diplomat while playing a catholic faction is to sent a diplomat to the papal states. (I recommend papal states because keeping a good relation with the Pope has many other benefits more than acting as a practice ground for your diplomat.) At first do not put forward a deal, just gift the Pope with 500 florins do that for a few turns ( provided you can meet the cost). I particularly mention 500 florins because every gift of 500 florins will improve the relation between the factions to the next level. e.g "very poor" to "poor", "good" to "very good", "very good" to "outstanding" and finally "outstanding" to "perfect" (not to mention this will increase the no. of crosses in the Papal standings scroll). Thus with a few turns you can get a perfect relation with the Pope. You may also gift any mount like even 1000 F. This will upgrade the relation faster. eg. "good to outstanding" i.e there is no limit to the relation upgrading in one turn. After that if you offer alliance to the Pope with a fair amount of money or sometimes even without money they will accept the alliance offer. Once alliance is accepted you can put forward a deal , where you offer "map information" and demand "map info". When doing this care should be taken that you explore something new with your agents or armies (using spy would be ideal) or else after a few turn the pope will reject your offer of map information. Never ask money for "map info" even if it is just a 100F, because AI seems to be too stingy to give money. Also don't try to do the converse that is give money and ask map info, since this too is not always accepted. At certain times if you suspect that they may reject your offer, you can make the offer like this "map information" and a little money (100F) for map info then it will surely give you the generous balance and will be most probably accepted.

    In case you are playing as a non Catholic faction you can use the same strategy on any ally. That will be enough to make a good diplomat.( though you will not be able to shoot 2 birds with one arrow).

    offering "trade rights" is also usually acceptable but you can only offer "trade right" once to a faction(since once they accept it you can no longer offer them "trade rights") so not as effective as the above tip .

    REPUTATION AND RELATED TIPS

    Reputation is almost as important as the degree of weakness of your opponent. The higher the reputation the more likely opponent faction will become your vassal. though I have heard that dreadful king reduce reputation, I don't fully agree with that fact because reputation is mainly depends on what you do to the other factions. That is if you break alliance or attack an allied faction your reputation will suffer.

    Tips on maintaining reputation

    In the start of the campaign you will be neutral to all other factions and so you can easily forge alliance with almost all the neighboring factions with ease, but never do that. Doing so will later bring down your reputation because after a few turns some of your allies are bound to fight each other ( since you are having too many allies) then you will have to pick one side to favor, which means you are breaking alliance with another, resulting in reduced reputation.Even if you are not in such a condition you will eventually (as your military power grows)have to attack some of your allies to expand your empire.So try to keep the number of allies to a maximum of 3. Secondly avoid venturing out and attacking neutral faction as this too will reduce reputation. You can easily do this because in the start of the game there will be many rebel settlements after you have captured all the rebel settlements wait a few turns( you will obviously wait a few turns without battle since you need to replenish your coffers and train new units)by that time some one will most probably attack you. If no one attacks you then you may consider attacking them but try to reduce the number of initial enemies. Even breaking trade agreements will cause your reputation to drop. Player rarely break trade agreements as it does no harm and is simply mutually beneficial still at certain times we will have to break trade agreements (that too is to maintain good reputation). The benefit of breaking a trade agreement is that this will reduce the hit on your reputation if you wish to attack that faction. Simply breaking a trade agreement too affects the reputation one so when declaring "cancel trade rights" give some money or map info.(This have really worked for me). Again before attacking the faction directly it will be a good idea to provoke the other faction to declare war on you by proposing unbearable treaties.(this will take time to work out though)

    THINGS TO BE KEPT IN MIND WHILE TRYING TO GET A VASSAL

    First of all never try to negotiate vassalage to a strong faction as it will only result in your diplomat gaining negative traits. Do not waste too much turn trying to make a faction your vassal. If even after weakening that faction is not ready to become your vassal then you may try again but do not forget to continue your empires expansions in other directions.If you have followed all these tips to the maximum extend possible and the faction is still not surrendering in 4-5 turns it would be best to exterminate them. While in war with a faction your relation with that nation will go down to "Abysmal". It is often observed that when your relation with a faction is in abysmal there is good chance that they will refuse to the vassalage offer so do not attack them for a few turns ( 2 will do) then the relation will automatically improve a bit, this is the ideal time for a vassalage negotiation. Always offer heavy cash with the become vassal demand ( though I had a few instance where the simply accepted even without and map info offer). Last but not the least, care must be taken that you do not kill all the family members in the battle since that will destroy the faction and the remaining settlements will become rebel settlements. ( There was once an instance where I killed almost all the family members except one, that family member was leading an army outside a settlement. Then suddenly he rebelled and the faction was destroyed.)

    Thats all, hope this will help you make some vassals. After all it is great having vassals since we get money bonus and some territories will be gained without having to fight for it, more over it gives more satisfaction to make a faction your vassal than destroy it.

    Face All The Challenges With Courage.
    My blood Is Hotter Than The Sun
    With An Invincible Will
    And A Strong Body
    With Lofty Sentiments And Far Seeing Vision
    I Drive Myself Hard To Be A Hero

    [This message has been edited by sebinshaolin (edited 05-27-2011 @ 03:51 AM).]

  • AuthorReplies:
    BastWorshiper
    Sensei
    posted 26 May 2011 11:35 EDT (US)     1 / 8       
    On the first pass, here, I'm just going to point out grammatical and spelling errors. I'll quote the article and then rewrite the quoted section below, with corrections. I apologize for being nitpicky about punctuation.
    I have already posted an short introduction so I will try to make this one as brief as possible. I was introduced to the total war series through Roam Total War and later started playing Medieval Total War 2. In RTW too there was an diplomatic option become protectorate which was but it was solely determined by the amount of cash that you can offer.(Since diplomats gain traits at an astonishing rate).
    I have already posted sn a short introduction; so I will try to make this one as brief as possible. I was introduced to the total war series through Roam Rome Total War and later started playing Medieval Total War 2. In RTW too there was an a diplomatic option become protectorate which was but it was solely determined by the amount of cash that you can offer, since diplomats gain traits at an astonishing rate.
    In the case of MTW2 it something different because different aspects are taken into account so I shall be detailing about these aspects and how to improve them in the later sections.
    In the case of MTW2, it is something different because different aspects are taken into account; so I shall be detailing about these aspects and how to improve them in the later sections.
    Here I will mention the primary things to be followed to get a vassal, most of my reader will be aware of these steps but still I am adding this section for those who have never even tried to get a vassal and know nothing about it.
    Here, I will mention the primary things steps to be followed to get a vassal, most of my readers will be aware of these steps, but still I am still adding this section for those who have never even tried to get a vassal and know nothing about it.
    Factions whose power is weak or very weak (pathetic would be ideal) will only accept to become a vassal naturally no one would want to bow before another when you are strong enough. Economy too should be shattered before attempting to making a faction your vassal. Taking a few full banner armies to stand near the last of their settlements too is a good idea though not compulsory as it cause devastation again shattering the enemy economy.
    Factions whose power is weak or very weak (pathetic would be ideal) will only will accept to become a vassal. Naturally, no one would want to bow before another when you are strong enough. Economy too should also be shattered before attempting to making make a faction your vassal. Taking a few full banner armies to stand near the last of their settlements too is also a good idea, though not compulsory, as it causes devastation, again shattering the enemy economy.
    The reputation of your King is a quiet decisive factor when you try to make a faction your vassal.to be specific other factions will more easily agree to become your vassal if you have a chivalrous King rather than a Dreadful King.
    The reputation of your King is a quiet quite decisive factor when you try to make a faction your vassal. To be specific, other factions will more easily agree to become your vassal if you have a chivalrous King, rather than a Dreadful King.
    The most effective, sure shot and quick way to make our King chivalrous is to sent him on a crusade. While sending him take care that you sent him to a near by place so that you can save certain number of turns wasted on traveling. I often persuade the pope to call a crusade on a near by rebel settlement for this propose. Persuading the Pope have many advantages. Firstly you can fight a rebel or an enemy of your faction rather than making a neutral faction your enemy (Usually when pope calls a crusade you are forced to declare war on that faction if at all you wish to join the crusade). Secondly you can specify a near by settlement saving a few turn of journey.
    The most effective, sure-shot, and quick way to make our King chivalrous is to sent send him on a crusade. While sending him, take care that you sent send him to a near by nearby place so that you can save certain number of turns wasted on traveling. I often persuade the pope to call a crusade on a near by nearby rebel settlement for this propose. Persuading the Pope have has many advantages. Firstly you can fight a rebel or an enemy of your faction rather than making a neutral faction your enemy. (Usually when pope calls a crusade you are forced to declare war on that faction, if at all you wish to join the crusade). Secondly, you can specify a near by nearby settlement saving a few turn of journey.
    Last thing on crusades is that never send the same person again on a crusade because he will not get bonus retinue and trait since he already own it.The Pope may some time request for the same person in, that case you may be forced to assign that general to crusade but make sure that you have another crusading army and that army will do the fighting.
    Last thing on crusades is that you should never send the same person again on a second crusade, because he will not get bonus retinue and trait, since he already own it. The Pope may some time sometimes request for the same person. In that case, you may be forced to assign that general to crusade but make sure that you have another crusading army and that army will do the fighting.



    Sorry, that's all I have time for, right now. I'll get back to this later.

    "It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do. There is no fun in doing nothing when you have nothing to do.
    Wasting time is merely an occupation then, and a most exhausting one. Idleness, like kisses, to be sweet must be stolen." -- Jerome K. Jerome

    "Some people become so expert at reading between the lines they don't read the lines." -- Margaret Millar

    ERADICATE CONDESCENSION! (That means don't talk down to people.)

    [This message has been edited by BastWorshiper (edited 05-26-2011 @ 11:41 AM).]

    EnemyofJupitor
    HG Alumnus Superbus
    posted 26 May 2011 12:05 EDT (US)     2 / 8       
    I apologise for not getting back to you on this article sooner- it seems to be a good one from when I read it. I'm in the middle of exams, though, so I'll get to you on it after

    And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
    SwampRat
    M2TW Ladder Leader
    posted 27 May 2011 02:26 EDT (US)     3 / 8       
    A nice guide, I'd not realised that the king had any affect at all on vassalage.

    There's a good article on chivalry by El Bandito (http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2tw/strategy/campaign/chivalryenglish/chivalryenglish.shtml), I think you've got the core points. One thing I might add is that even just training agents can cause dread I think.

    Personally I use low taxes everywhere I can in order to boost growth - it tends to end with most of my generals having 'the saint' or similar titles due to the boost they get to chivalry from it.

    I suppose an extra question to address - what are the effects of having a vassal? I think that you get income from them, but I wouldn't swear it works how I'd have expected.
    sebinshaolin
    Legionary
    posted 27 May 2011 03:18 EDT (US)     4 / 8       
    Thanks for your sincere comments and support especially Enemy Of Jupiter and Swamp Rat.

    Yes it seems that vassalage proposals seem generous with the king being chivalrous. Still I must agree that reputation is more important than the trait of the king.
    Small drops together make oceans so can't ignore it.

    Having a vassal is fun but more than fun it gives you a great economic boost (especially in the early stages).

    i.e you get a good amount of money as tribute turn by turn.


    The screen shot software i am using currently cannot be use to take a screen shot of the game so if you can suggest how to take a screen shot and any good site to upload it then i can post my expenditure sheet making my answer more clear.


    And about the tax lowering the tax do help a lot. I have made an update on it.

    Face All The Challenges With Courage.
    My blood Is Hotter Than The Sun
    With An Invincible Will
    And A Strong Body
    With Lofty Sentiments And Far Seeing Vision
    I Drive Myself Hard To Be A Hero

    [This message has been edited by sebinshaolin (edited 05-27-2011 @ 03:49 AM).]

    SwampRat
    M2TW Ladder Leader
    posted 27 May 2011 08:38 EDT (US)     5 / 8       
    For screenshots, pressing 'print screen' in game will save a .tga file into the screenshot directory (I think it's Medieval2/TGAs, but it might be slightly different). Unfortunately, that's a pig of a format because not many things open it.

    There are some good free conversion tools around, or if you have Photoshop (or a demo of it) you can open them with that and convert them to jpgs. I used to use imageshack for picture hosting but it seems to have been taken over by something else with frog in the name, I'll probably still carry on using it if I can find it. Other image hosting places include photobucket.

    I think one of the guides on the war stories forum might help with more detail, but I'm not quite sure which one ( http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=10,8998,,20 )
    EnemyofJupitor
    HG Alumnus Superbus
    posted 05 January 2012 09:27 EDT (US)     6 / 8       
    Congratulations, your article has been uploaded here!

    I meddled with a bit of grammar and syntax, but apart from that it's a damn good guide. Nice one

    And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
    SwampRat
    M2TW Ladder Leader
    posted 05 January 2012 15:05 EDT (US)     7 / 8       
    There's a slight glitch with the link:
    File not found

    This page was blown up by an arsonist. Please wait till we rebuild it.
    It goes to http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2tw/strategy/campaign/vassals/vassals/overview.shtml
    instead of http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2tw/strategy/campaign/vassals/vassals.shtml
    which is quite odd as hovering over the link shows the (correct) second link.

    I like the random 404 pages though
    You are trying to view a document that is not on our servers. We think we lost it in the recent raids by the Vikings.
    EnemyofJupitor
    HG Alumnus Superbus
    posted 05 January 2012 16:26 EDT (US)     8 / 8       
    Odd. I think it's an automatic thing.

    Everything fixed now. New url. If you find a dead link refresh the previous page.

    And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
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