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Total War Heaven » Forums » Rome: Total War Discussion » Why was Maximus (Gladiator) known as the Spaniard?
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Topic Subject:Why was Maximus (Gladiator) known as the Spaniard?
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MatureCheddar
Legionary
posted 28 April 2005 08:03 EDT (US)         
I have been arguing with my friends about this for ages and i really want to know why the hell is Maximus known as the Spaniard? is he from Spain? if he is then why is he a big Roman general? should he of started out in the auxillary? if he was then he could have only come out after his time in there was finished and even then he would have only got a Roman citizenship.

So please if anyone knows please let me know cos im sick of arguin with my mates about it (Im going to look stupid if im wrong) Cheers


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Duan Xuan
Legionary
posted 28 April 2005 08:08 EDT (US)     1 / 32       
Maximus (so the storyline goes) was from the Iberian province of Tarraconensis, hence he was called "the Spaniard" by his gladiatoral fans. I'm pretty sure that you guys know the territorial demarcations of the Roman empire, right?... It included the peninsula.
yakcamkir
Seraph Emeritus
posted 28 April 2005 08:22 EDT (US)     2 / 32       
He was definitely from Spain, but I think that his family were probably important Romans, even if he had never been to Rome.

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Ol Jock 99
Legionary
posted 28 April 2005 09:00 EDT (US)     3 / 32       
I thought it was because he was sold into slavery to Spain and hence came to Rome as a Spanish Gladiator. Disclaimer—haven’t seen the movie in a long time.
yakcamkir
Seraph Emeritus
posted 28 April 2005 09:02 EDT (US)     4 / 32       
True, that's why he was called Spaniard.

But he was a general, and lived in Spain.


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Duan Xuan
Legionary
posted 28 April 2005 10:15 EDT (US)     5 / 32       
I've watched the film three times and I have the book as well. Maximus was a Roman general, but he came from the Iberian peninsula. In the film you see him rushing back to his hometown, only to find his family brutally murdered. There, he was picked up by slave traders and sold to a gladiator performance troupe, where the real show about his struggle starts.
yakcamkir
Seraph Emeritus
posted 28 April 2005 10:30 EDT (US)     6 / 32       
Were his family from Rome though?

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"Your front-page picture of Kate Winslet with a plunging neckline being up for two golden globes was most appropriate."

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Duan Xuan
Legionary
posted 28 April 2005 10:49 EDT (US)     7 / 32       
Nope, in Tarraconensis.

Anyway, why is this thread in this forum?

Panzerleader
Legionary
posted 28 April 2005 11:12 EDT (US)     8 / 32       
Maximus was Roman: His ancestors were obviously Romans that had moved to Spain during or after the Roman conquest. That makes him geographically not ethnically Spanish, but a Spainard none the less.
SpitfulPig
Legionary
(id: butcher003)
posted 28 April 2005 13:33 EDT (US)     9 / 32       
All though he appears to ahve been in command before the battle of Teutoberg forest as he was in command of the "pheonix legions" and the armies of the north, the 17th 18th and 19th which were lost at Teutoberg, however there is a character named Lucuis Varus who has a dead father which ocul dmean this was just after Teutoberg,
They made a mess of the research....

"If you find yourself riding alone through open fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled for you are in Elysium and you are already dead!"- "The Spaniard" - Gladiator
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yakcamkir
Seraph Emeritus
posted 28 April 2005 13:50 EDT (US)     10 / 32       

Quote:

Maximus was Roman: His ancestors were obviously Romans that had moved to Spain during or after the Roman conquest. That makes him geographically not ethnically Spanish, but a Spainard none the less.

I thought so. I've been waiting for confirmation for ages.


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"Your front-page picture of Kate Winslet with a plunging neckline being up for two golden globes was most appropriate."

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Jax
HG Monument
(id: Jax Omen)
posted 28 April 2005 15:58 EDT (US)     11 / 32       
The guy who catures him near his home says tries to make out that he wasn't a legion deserter (he had the SPQR on his shoulder). He tries to prove this by saying that he was found in spain, and so can't possibly be a deserter.

house won this
Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)
posted 28 April 2005 18:07 EDT (US)     12 / 32       
Most Iberians had gained Roman citizenship by the rule of Marcus Aurelius. It probably would've been rarer to find a non-citizen Spaniard by Aurelius' rule than a citizen. Even Trajan, the emperor who expanded the empire to its peak was a Roman Spaniard. And citizenship can be achieved in many ways. Military service, some great deed in the name of Rome, and being the child of a father who has citizenship were all ways to be a citizen.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin
MatureCheddar
Legionary
posted 28 April 2005 18:08 EDT (US)     13 / 32       
WILL WE EVER KNOW!!!

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Cheesewiz
HG Alumnus
posted 28 April 2005 18:44 EDT (US)     14 / 32       
Actually guys, this whole story actually fits in distantly well with history.

Maximus was a Roman General under Marcus Aurelius in the movie. Marcus dies, and the son takes power dispite Marcus wishes for Maximus to be the next emperor.

In real history, Marcus Aurelius DOES in fact die during the end of his German campaign, and in fact his son who was actually named Commodus ascends to the throne.

And, Commodus is known as a terrible emperor. He even fights in gladiatorial games, and enjoys personal combat. He does marry his sister, and he was known to be insane.


Therefore, in reality, they did an excellent job in the research, and aside from there never being a General from Spain named Maximus, it fits in quite well.

http://www.roman-emperors.org/commod.htm

A good link on that.


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ScipioAfricanus6
Legionary
posted 28 April 2005 19:05 EDT (US)     15 / 32       
Are you sure it was Commedus who married his sister, or are you confusing him with Caligula who was said to have slept with all of his sisters (although he prefered one over the others and had her defied when she died). Whereas it was Nero who was famed as having fought in Gladitorial games. (I am convinced they mixed the stories about Nero and Commedus in the film and quite possibly Caligula as well). I really love history to the extent I am doing it for my degree and am fond of Roman history. Yet I really hate Gladiator with a passion. I feel it is a completely over the top film that does everything it can to demonise Commedus and Russell Crowe is just irritating incarnate to me.

From my history of the period - which I am a little shakey on as I have only read Edward Gibbons (one of my favourite historians) from this despictation he doesn't seem anything like as bad. Not the best of emperors but no worse than Caligula, Nero or Domitian, perhaps even on the level of Tiberius. With his insanity apparently triggered by a assassination attempt by his sister. The battle scene seems unrealistic with both the use of artilery which I am sure was generally not used in non-siege engagements and also due to the fact that the Germans had NO CAVALRY in the battle despite being famed as cavalry men and indeed many served in the Imperial Roman army in this period and increasingly in later Roman history. Gladitor also completely rips of the classic film "Decline and fall of the Roman empire" (its title inspired by Gibbons I believe)

Sorry to go off on a rant, which goes completely off topic, but this film bugs me. I do realise my criticism verges on the petty.

Cheesewiz
HG Alumnus
posted 28 April 2005 19:51 EDT (US)     16 / 32       
*checks*


Hmm, you've got one point. I was sure that he married his sister or had some sort of sexual relationship like that. However, I can't find anything on it :s


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1ArCHeR1
Legionary
posted 28 April 2005 20:21 EDT (US)     17 / 32       

Quote:

All though he appears to ahve been in command before the battle of Teutoberg forest as he was in command of the "pheonix legions" and the armies of the north, the 17th 18th and 19th which were lost at Teutoberg, however there is a character named Lucuis Varus who has a dead father which ocul dmean this was just after Teutoberg,
They made a mess of the research....

Wasn't Teutoberg during the reign of Octavian?

And MA having a son is what destroyed the Roman Empire. OR at least Ceasarship going to his son...


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lars573
Legionary
posted 29 April 2005 00:10 EDT (US)     18 / 32       

Quote:

Wasn't Teutoberg during the reign of Octavian?

And MA having a son is what destroyed the Roman Empire. OR at least Ceasarship going to his son...

Yes I think it in *checks stuff* 9 AD, and the standards lost were recovered by Germanicus under Tiberius. Your comments about MA warrnet some dispute but I have not the words so I'll take them from the source I have.


Quote:

Although Hollywood, and Italian cinema, used to turn out one Roman themed movie after another, frequently with religious overtones (called "sword-and-sandals" epics), the genre all but died with a 1964 movie about Commodus, The Fall of the Roman Empire (a tad premature there on the "Fall"). Except for Fellini's strange Satyricon (1970), the pornographic Caligula (1979), and the comic Monty Python's Life of Brian (1979), the next Roman movie would not be released until 2000, with Ridley Scott's big budget and successful Gladiator. This is also, as it happens, about Commodus. The closing implication of Gladiator is diametrically the opposite of the 1964 movie, with the good guys apparently having won and a hopeful future in the offing. Neither movie, of course, gets it quite right. The competition for the throne in 193 was not very edifying, and absolutely none of the players appear in Gladiator, not even Pertinax, the prefect of the city of Rome. On the other hand, the story does not pretend to historical accuracy about the events. Commodus did like to fight gladiators, but he was not killed that way, and certainly not by a wronged general. There is no evidence that Commodus killed his father, or any hint that Marcus considered a non-hereditary succession. Even in the movie it is clear that his provision for such a thing came far too late to be effective. Gladiator is a good movie and a good story, but it is not a serious attempt to present real Roman history. Because of its success, however, one can hope that other events in Roman history, however fictionalized, will have a chance to make it onto the screen.


From http://www.friesian.com/romania.htm

Essentially Maximus was manufactured from one of the many generals at the German front. As for his citizenship, he was Spainish and it was 181 of course he was a citizen. The extension of Latin rights, or citizenship goes, free men of Italy (after the social war IIRC), free men of Spain, free men of the whole empire.


Your monarchist friend Lars

VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI

I came, I saw, I kicked ass

[This message has been edited by lars573 (edited 04-29-2005 @ 00:11 AM).]

Legion_of_Maida
Legionary
posted 29 April 2005 04:24 EDT (US)     19 / 32       
Keeping in mind pretty much every province taken by Rome was considered Roman I doubt it matters if the generals truly came from the City itself. Heck they had a Emperior come and go from Spain.
Tuke
Legionary
posted 29 April 2005 12:33 EDT (US)     20 / 32       
Here is a good site to read about the historical accuracy of the movie. Also for those of you who were specifically interested in Maximus read the page 4 toward the bottom. The whole story is 7 pages long. http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/showcase/wardgladiator1.html

[This message has been edited by Tuke (edited 04-29-2005 @ 12:33 PM).]

LUCIUS ARTORIUS
Legionary
posted 29 April 2005 15:01 EDT (US)     21 / 32       
The first few replies here got me a little ticked,some people didn't want to believe that maximus could have been a spaniard,even though this is a fictional character.Here are a few facts spain became rome's 2nd foreign colony after sicily.spaniards wether iberians celts or celtiberians were given roman citizens during the repulican stage (way before the empire).3 roman emperors were spanish.The term "roman citizen" or "roman soldier" does not mean coming from the city of Rome it means citizen of the roman empire which was at the time the largest empire of the world and consisted like the united states today of many different nationalities or ethnic groups that gave up their differences to become one roman people ,everyone of them became civilized.The roman sword was adapted from the sword spanish tribesmen used the romans fought in spain and the sword became known as the "spanish sword" or "gladius sword".Many romans believed the best roman troops were spaniards including caesar himself.Julius caesar's bodyguard was spanish and was dismissed by caesar for the night shortly before his assassination.Spain was part of "rome" for 600 years! both under the republic and the empire.Thats 400 years more than the united states has existed.Spain was one of the empire's richest and most important provinces.The punic wars were fought over spain.Many many spaniards served in the roman army and many became generals.now for the disheartening part romans were a latin people meaning they came from southern europe the countries that now consist of spain,italy,portugal,greece,romania they spoke latin had brown hair and eyes (not blue eyes and blond hair like in the movies those where the barbarians!).Thus there is alot more "roman" blood in the veins of spanish or hispanic people of today than there is in the blood of the anglo-saxons,and germanic peoples those were the uncivilized people that helped destroy the empire.So if they called maximus a "spaniard" it was definetly because he was a "spaniard" but this was a fictional character there were many more real braver spaniard romans anyway.

"Kill them all. God will know his own." Pope Innocent III 1209 AD Albigensian Crusade,dealing justice to heretics.(guest he needed more denari just like us when playing RTW). "BRING BACK DECISIVE BATTLES ON HISTORY CHANNEL THE BEST SHOW ON TV" me 2005
Silencio
Legionary
posted 29 April 2005 16:11 EDT (US)     22 / 32       
Maximus is the Hollywood "Dream Hero". He is however based on certain histotical events.

Comodus was murdered on December 31st, 192 AD. The man who succeded him as Emperor was Septimus Servius. He was a Roman General, Spanyard by origin and comanded the Roman Armies in Spain. He led the successful revolt of his troops, that led to the murder of Comodus.

Septimus was a talated general, very popular with the Army, and a stern administrator. Part of the negative or dismissive attitude, shown by some historians towards his reign, is due to the his policy of persecuting the Christians in an attempt to behold and strengthen the ancient Roman tradition. He was also most probably a Mithraist himself.

Lenardius VII
Legionary
posted 29 April 2005 22:37 EDT (US)     23 / 32       
Pheonix legions, isn't it Felix legions, because i know they use the word Felix

you can see it on the banners, (I think haven't seen it in ages)

wait..does Felix mean Pheonix??????

......................


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lars573
Legionary
posted 29 April 2005 23:26 EDT (US)     24 / 32       
I think Felix is a derivative of son. Son in latin is filius.

Your monarchist friend Lars

VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI

I came, I saw, I kicked ass

beekay
Legionary
(id: black_knight_101)
posted 30 April 2005 00:38 EDT (US)     25 / 32       

Quote:

Keeping in mind pretty much every province taken by Rome was considered Roman

Erm, no. Think 'under the heel of, but not truly owned/patrolled etc by'. I highly doubt they considered all the Gallic cities they captured, true Roman cities. In fact, the only cities they considered Roman were the Italian provinces.


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