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Rome: Total War Discussion
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Total War Heaven » Forums » Rome: Total War Discussion » spearmen
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Topic Subject:spearmen
deadly_arrow
Legionary
posted 23 May 2006 15:10 EDT (US)         
with the romans yer any family which type of unit is the best for

defeating hoplites
warhounds
generals cavalry

if u could help me with this that wud be much appreciated

thnx

AuthorReplies:
EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus
posted 23 May 2006 15:17 EDT (US)     1 / 19       
Firstly- Welcome to RTWH! Enjoy your stay, and before other forummers shout at you, I would like to offer a word of advice to not speak in MSN-type speak. Some over 20s (Yes, I'm not kidding) and non-english speakers have a headache trying to translate it. It is a forum- a place of thought and you have all the time in the world to say what you want.

Right, and now to your question:
Hoplites: Pin them down with 1 unit hastani and flank them with another or two. Don't use cavalry, I tell you, though. And use your pilum.

Warhounds: Any infantry should take out the handelers nicely. The actual dogs will cause a headache, as you can't attack them, but stand a unit near the dogs, who will attack them, and just leave the unit who will auto attack.

General's cavalry: Your general and massed troops should do well. I would suggest elephants, or a phalanx but you're romans. The very best you can do for this is to go to the south of Italy and recreuit some mercenary hoplites.


And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
deadly_arrow
Legionary
posted 23 May 2006 15:20 EDT (US)     2 / 19       
ok ill take your advice and spell everything out properly sorry im new to forums but thanks for telling me and answering my question
EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus
posted 23 May 2006 15:22 EDT (US)     3 / 19       
No problem! Hope to see more of you!
We could always use fresh blood on the forums...

And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
Chalupa Batman
Centurion
(id: ccsantos)
posted 23 May 2006 16:29 EDT (US)     4 / 19       
welcome to the forums, we're here to help

As-Salaam-Alaikum
Im_a_beaver
Legionary
posted 23 May 2006 16:49 EDT (US)     5 / 19       
i think it's a bad idea to take on hoplites from the front: you suffer too many casualties, and your troops will most likely rout before your flankers arrive.

Instead use an army composed of a few good cavalry units and a lot of cheap and fast skirmishers. Lure the hoplites out of the dense battle formation they start in with your skirmishers. Get one unit a bit away from the rest of the army, then charge it in the back with your cavalry. Unless it's made of spartans or is highly experienced, it will rout. If it don't, just withdraw and charge again.

In the beggining it's very hard to keep track of all your units at once, but once you get used to it, defeating even huge armies of hoplites becomes easy. You can always use pause to help you out.

Later in the game you could also try to mass artillery. One onager boulder can kill of 25 % of a densely packed hoplite unit. I never really used it, since i find siege to slow down my armies to much on the campaign map.


"The real Art of Peace is not to sacrifice a single one of your warriors to defeat an enemy. Vanquish your foes by always keeping yourself in a safe and unassailable position; then no one will suffer any losses."
-Morihei Ueshiba, founder of aikido

English is not my first language, so please excuse me.

Undefeatable
Legionary
posted 23 May 2006 16:51 EDT (US)     6 / 19       
Yes, welcome to the forums of Hell. Enemy of Jupitor is our cruel and vicious evil Leader. "The Devil" you might call him. Lol, ah, im just joking. Hope to see more of ya!

Unde

Foolcrusher
Legionary
posted 23 May 2006 16:53 EDT (US)     7 / 19       
Triarii should take care of enemy generals, just make sure not to get flanked.
EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus
posted 23 May 2006 17:00 EDT (US)     8 / 19       
Ahh, but that's late game. By the time you get them Marius is a turn or two away in my experience.
Yes, I am the creul Devil leader of teh Gen. Discussion. I useually get to newbie threads first, welcome them, and give them any advice for future posting

@Beaver: You have to time the units right. One way of doing this is to have a long line. A phalanx hits one unit of the line. The unit(s) next to it takes one step forward, turn, throw their Pilum and charge. Works beutifully.


And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
GMRage
Legionary
posted 24 May 2006 00:18 EDT (US)     9 / 19       
Welcome,

Work to your units strengths. Most people's understanding of roman tactics stops at their great hand-to-hand fighting skills, but this is only HALF their power. The other half lies in their ranged attack. Hastati, Principes & all cohorts have pila, which have high damage & are armour piercing to boot.

1. Spearmen & hoplites rely on their long spears to keep enemy swordsmen (like roman infantry) from closing to melee combat. The romans got around that by arming their troops with pila. Use the full complement of pila from each unit of hastati/principes you have. This will vastly improve your chances of beating holpites with fairly basic roman infantry. Also use velites & any mercenary peltasts/Illyrian mercs you can hire. Also, the Julii have a unit of bowmen at the start of the game. Have multiple units focus fire on one enemy spear unit. Once you get one unit routing, other full strength enemy units are MUCH more likely to run.

2. Warhounds: I believe there are 3 hounds per handler. I have read that whenever a handler is killed, his 3 hounds automatically die. If this is true, try & get a strong infantry unit (principes) to lure away the dogs & hit the handlers with a couple of equites or some other fast moving units. They don't have much armour & should go down fast. (also try destroying the handlers with arrows/javelins)

3. Generals: Pila are effective against heavy cav since they are armour peircing. Try to mob the General with merc hoplites & principes. I usually end up grabing the closest half dozen units(whatever they are) to try & kill the enemy general ASA*P. (keep a heavy infantry unit in reserve behind your battleline for just this eventuality)

GM


Stupid questions & their appropriate responses from an Australian tourism web site:

Q: Which direction is North in Australia? (USA)
A: Face south and then turn 180 degrees. Contact us when you get here and we'll send the rest of the directions.

Severous
Legionary
posted 24 May 2006 02:49 EDT (US)     10 / 19       
My two pennyworth (for play against the AI):

- Use your cavalry and general to beat the enemy mobile and missile forces first. Then kill hoplites with missiles. Because of shields and armour it is more effective to fire into non shield side or rear.

- Warhounds. I think you have to kill the handlers before they release the dogs in order for their dogs to dissappear. Once released the dogs have a single purpose mind of their own and doesnt matter what happens to the handlers. The dogs are targetted at one of your units. Once you know what that is then exploit that to lure the dogs into waiting spears or heavy infantry. Facing 7 Julii dog units I used Barbarian Cavalry and Equites to attack the rear of the Julii army where the dog units were. Inevitably many dogs got released and ran after my horsemen. The horsemen ran off uphill then around and behind a waiting phalanx of Merc hoplites. The dogs homed in on the cavalry that was now behind the phalanx.

- General cavalry. It is the first target for artillery and archers if I have any. I like to kill the general early if I can. To gain battlefield control and reduce enemy morale. By going after enemy missile troops with cavalry the enemy general will often counter attack. Thats when I lure the enemy into my troops and mob them. Against light cavalry the AI general will often realise it cannot catch them and stop its charge. Thats the ideal time to hit them with your own charging troops.

Godfried Van B
Legionary
posted 24 May 2006 10:37 EDT (US)     11 / 19       
i have also some times problems against hoplits, i just dont fight the greeks :-)

and can someone PLEASE answer this http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,4298,0,10

thanx


one land,one king
EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus
posted 24 May 2006 11:01 EDT (US)     12 / 19       
I think he meant 'go to the file where your saves are (Hunt around in the data file for it) and copy it. Make a folder elsewhere on your computer, paste the folder there, re-install RTW and find the save game folder again. Put the copied files in this save game folder.'
I think.

And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
TotalWarFanatic
Legionary
posted 24 May 2006 11:40 EDT (US)     13 / 19       

Quote:

i just dont fight the greeks :-)


That is the first thought of many, a wall of spears is a frighting though, and who wants to fight one in battle? THe truth is their inflexible, slow, vulnerable to flanking and missiles. In multiplayer phalanxes rarely beat Romans. First, you must kill of all their missiles, then, destroy their slow phalanxes. They may pull them up then rush toward you. That's fine. Pilla weakens them greatly, and one break in the line and their dead. Once you get behind a phalanx (or go around, that's quite easy as their so slow) then their dead. A legionary unit can have to lines facing one way and to the other, easy. But phalanxes are made for crushing anything in front of them, something behind them means trouble. So sacrifice some cavalry, charge some into a spot, then several units of heavy infantry can cut their way through. From then on it's easy to just perform a series of flanking manouvers.

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
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Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
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mercury9
Legionary
posted 24 May 2006 18:51 EDT (US)     14 / 19       
it is I! underdog that no one knows or cares about that defends the seemingly weaker units! ha but anywho, i don't think that the hoplites are given enough credit. i disagree with the statement that romans always wins against greeks. i have defeated the romans plenty and it's not hard. you just need support cavalry support and maybe even put your hoplites on the ends out of phalanx formation so they can run and deal with the enemy trying to flank you.

but besides that, if the hounds have already been released, they will run regardless of the life of their handler. their just won't be as many in the next battle if some handlers die. the easiest way to kill hounds is with cavalry. i always send cavalry against them and i never have any of them die.

EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus
posted 25 May 2006 01:37 EDT (US)     15 / 19       

Quote:

i disagree with the statement that romans always wins against greeks. i have defeated the romans plenty and it's not hard.


He meant in Multiplayer. A whole different kettle of fish

And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
mercury9
Legionary
posted 25 May 2006 14:33 EDT (US)     16 / 19       
oh my mistake but i don't think that it's totally impossible to win against the romans with the greeks? i mean wouldn't you think CA would balance out this sort of thing? i'm sure the greeks have a good shot at defeating the romans and vice-versa

"The best defense is a good offense" -I Forget
" in battle, if you know you cannot beat your enemy, give him mean looks and act like you're about to do something heroic. it might scare him into doing something stupid. If not, act like you died"
- Me
Undefeatable
Legionary
posted 25 May 2006 14:42 EDT (US)     17 / 19       
TWF ::

Quote:

That is the first thought of many, a wall of spears is a frighting though, and who wants to fight one in battle? THe truth is their inflexible, slow, vulnerable to flanking and missiles. In multiplayer phalanxes rarely beat Romans.

Hey bud, IMO, the Hoplites are awesome for maneouvering. I've never had a problem, but maybe you mean something else??? And isnt the Sacred Band Infantry in Carthage like inpenatrable from arrows? Dont they like barely get killed when archer's are firing at them?? I thought so at least.

Personally, I've used the Phalanx / Hoplite's so much. Way more than the Roman's. So IMO, they are really easy to work with. I think if you want to get rid of the "inflexible" problem, than you have to set up first in a way that allows you to manouever with ease if needed. Since the Hoplites move fairly slow, we must account for this prior to battle. Leaving ourselves options. By doing this, we can counter any other faction. Think about it, no unit is more effective, so if you figure out a way to make them less "inflexible" then you cant lose! I shall make a diagram if one should ask!


Unde

[This message has been edited by Undefeatable (edited 05-26-2006 @ 02:28 PM).]

D Furius Venator
HG Alumnus
posted 25 May 2006 18:56 EDT (US)     18 / 19       

Undefeatable: I don't think I've replied to this thread before and I've never said:

Quote:

That is the first thought of many, a wall of spears is a frighting though, and who wants to fight one in battle? THe truth is their inflexible, slow, vulnerable to flanking and missiles. In multiplayer phalanxes rarely beat Romans.


Civile! Si ergo fortibusis in ero.
Wassis inem causan dux?
Gnossis vile demsis trux!

I suggest that before badgering for a translation you take the time to read it out loud. Thankyou.
Undefeatable
Legionary
posted 26 May 2006 14:28 EDT (US)     19 / 19       
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