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Total War Heaven » Forums » Rome: Total War Discussion » Carthago on most difficult
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Topic Subject:Carthago on most difficult
Crusiminator
Legionary
posted 23 October 2007 21:20 EDT (US)         
After i easily won a campaign with the brutii which are by far the easiest i decided to pick carthago now

I sucessfully took messana in very early game and tricked the greek on the south while on the other hand i was also busy with defending messana against the brutii and caralis against scipi and juli so the scipii were really messed up(at least i thought so)

Furthermore i could defend my african cities against pushes from numidia and with already 4 heroic wins i even held corduba against the gauls which are really stupid. Instead of moving over half the map to attack me in southern spain they could have easily taken out the julii - hard to understand but maybe AI has a trick to prevent that. Another strange thing is that i took kroton but neither with slave mode nor massacre mode i could hold it and it got revolted. At least the brutii were taken out due to the fact that also tarentum was being revolted

So i have now 10 well developed cities and an average income of 5000 but now the problems begin. Even when i go on lowest taxes and my cities are mostly very close to carthago city i have problems with low loyalty. On the other hand the by far bigger problem is that the stupid romans already got reforms in year 230 or something - so the scipii and the julii already have praetorians - very hard to believe cause imo they cant have developed their cities so far plus having a high income with 2-3 cities to support their production

I really have troubles against those armies supported by onagers, all i can send to battle are war elephants, the elite pikemen(dunno their english name) and heavy cavalry but i dont seem to be sucessful anymore so i would appreciate some hints on how to do better
AuthorReplies:
Smackus Maximus
Legionary
posted 24 October 2007 03:33 EDT (US)     1 / 9       
Unfortunately on very hard you will have these sort of problems. On very hard the AI will give vast sums of money to your enemy factions, allowing them to generate armies out of nothing. Personally I play on hard instead for this reason. Your income is weighed down on very hard also.

As for public order, as soon as you can replace the temples of conquered cities with Temples to Baal, they boost law. Acedemies will help give good management traits to your governors, keep developing those acedemies. Execution squares will also help.

If you own Sicily, I would try and sack Capua - it sounds like the only Scipii controlled territory left. Get a couple of onagers and land a large army right there on the coast and smash Capua to the ground before they can send over their armies. This will remove them for the equation (check to see if they own Lepcis Magna first). Then all you have to do is concentrate on the Julii, while defending your cities from Numidia.
Killa4life
Legionary
posted 24 October 2007 06:18 EDT (US)     2 / 9       
Just a quik question: Are you *the* crusi from AS and all? :P [im doppel btw lol, nub name i got from a friend when i lost my main accs PW -_-]

Now some tips:

cities not originally owned by you get lower public order when they have many of their "original" buildings left, so destroy everything you can and rebuild on your own, especially temples.

With Carthage its a problem indeed, unless you keep building many buildings to boost the happyness early on its really causing a LOT of trouble. After all, that city and some others too might have just become too big, and its too late to build many buildings like academies etc, so [altho its a bad way, might be your last chance] simply let it revolt and exterminate the population... that will keep them happy for a while and let you build advanced temples etc.

The best way to beat the Romans is imo micro+lots of very heavy cavalry and the likes, also elephants. Use some ranegd cav as well to lure their infantry units into chasing your cav a bit, make it so they split up their army until ~1 batch of units is isolated, then mass charge with really heavy cav from all sides, use generals too.

Keep doing so, try getting their general+artillery early if somehow possible, if not try to get them while his inf is scattered.
Crusiminator
Legionary
posted 24 October 2007 14:15 EDT (US)     3 / 9       
lol, until yet i didnt know that you can destroy buildings anywhere, maybe its because i got a gold edition without a handbook so tell me how to delete any buildings and if i delete some buildings then i guess you never need to go to slave mode?

until yet i built mostly eco buildings like temples(the ones which also increase trade income), markets and farms in cities which were small from the beginning and focused on teching in military in my larger cities

the only problem is that i dont already have access to the best cavalry and elephant units and im really suprised that romans already reformed cause from what i remember it took much longer when i played the roman fractions

and yes im THIS crusiminator
Killa4life
Legionary
posted 24 October 2007 16:11 EDT (US)     4 / 9       
Well, if you select a city you see the buildings at the bottom. If you right click-select them, there will be an icon to destroy them.

Do that especially with foreign temples.
steace43
Legionary
posted 24 October 2007 17:13 EDT (US)     5 / 9       
Do that especially with foreign temples.
Be careful though. Sure, they give a public order penalty since they're not from your faction, but some temples have the ability to add 40% public order. If you have trouble controlling a city, you do not want to destroy that just yet

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Crusiminator
Legionary
posted 24 October 2007 21:55 EDT (US)     6 / 9       
i tried to delete the roman temple at kroton but it didnt have an effect so it got revolted soon. good that i got tarentum in the meantime to produce onagers there. the only thing that bothers me is that stupid gauls did obviously nothing but pushing me at corduba and lost mediolanum, patavium and massilia.

its pissing me off how dumb the gauls AI plays here cause the julii had nothing but 3 cities before. i can imagine now after i killed the scipii(which will happen soon) i have to deal the whole time with the julii while egypt booms to hell, they already have the whole east. i really dont understand the AI, when i play the julii i always have to deal with gauls and cant just send armies to caralis all time
steace43
Legionary
posted 25 October 2007 01:53 EDT (US)     7 / 9       
The AI is much more likely to attack the player than an another AI faction to make it a bit harder for us.

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gummybear
Legionary
posted 26 October 2007 19:52 EDT (US)     8 / 9       
The AI's priority is to abandon their standard strategies and attack the human player. As Carthage, I've had the Brutii sail to Thapsus (city below Carthage) and siege me with their entire starting army. Normally, they would use this army to attack the nearby rebel city in Greece but since I was Carthage, they sailed hundreds of miles to attack me.

As for public order when conquering cities, this is easy since you have Temples of Baal. When you enter a city, unless it has a very good temple (such as Scipii's temple of forge), I would destroy the current temple and replace it with a temple of Baal. I'd build the shrine, then a temple, then an execution square if necessary. These buildings give enough public order to stabilize the city. There is no need to destroy pre-existing buildings. Each building destroyed reduces unrest by only 5%. Rather, simply upgrade them to the next level (if possible) and they will become your culture's building.

Also, your general should be a family member with good influence. Influence adds to public order, 5% per influence. It's easy to gain influence simply by winning battles (any kind, any odds, commanded by the same guy). The more battles you win, you will eventually gain the Victor, Famous Victor, and Conquering Hero traits which add +2, +4, and +6 respectively to influence. Once one of my generals take a city, his influence usually keeps everything stable.

Law is very important for Carthage. Cities far away from your capital will gain corruption (you lose money) and have negative modifiers to public order. Law increases public order and reduces corruption. Law > happiness, always.

On VH campaign difficulty, the Romans will get the reforms around 230-235 BC almost always. This is due to the Julii taking the city in Venice.

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As Carthage I used a lot of Long Shield Cavalry (buildable from a Minor City, 6k pop). They have decent armor and attack and you can retrain them anywhere. Try to maintain armies with a lot of cavalry. I didn't really need elephants.

Later in the game the AI will use fire onagers on you. Simply take your general, go around and kill their onagers. Most of the time his unit will be fine. The AI is slow to react and usually I can go in, charge 1-2 units of Onagers/Ballista and then run out. Their cavalry will chase you, but you can lure them back to your army and surround them with your own cavalry. Then mop up the rest of their army.
Crusiminator
Legionary
posted 26 October 2007 22:15 EDT (US)     9 / 9       
i did that all but still there is a lot of unrest,so i started to massacre the citizens to at least prevent a payoff for romans when the city revolts

the armies i did best with were elephants+onagers with a few long shield cav to deal with other onagers as you said, unfortunately you cant build elephants everywhere so mostly i have to rely on carthage's elite infantry and cavalry

corruption is indeed a big problem cause i loose a lot of money which i miss when dealing with only enemies(scipii,julii,spain and numidia atm)
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