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Total War Heaven » Forums » Rome: Total War Discussion » Armenian Campaign (Help meh! D: )
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Topic Subject:Armenian Campaign (Help meh! D: )
Drakedeath
Legionary
posted 08 June 2009 07:57 EDT (US)         
Well, my campaign as Macedon has stopped with a stalemate with the Romans to the north and west and the Egyptians to the east. I've edited the descr_strat folder, so I decided to try a campaign as Armenia.

As you might know, Armenia starts out with modern day Armenia and Georgia. Their neighbors are the Seleucids to the south, a rebel city to the east, the Parthians to the southeast, Pontics to the west, and the Scythians to the north.

I start out by building up my financial buildings and only recruiting to keep public order at a comfy level. Over the course of 10 turns, I get about 7 generals through marriages and coming of age. Most were fairly decent. I seized the rebel town to the east, and form alliances with Scythia, Parthia, Pontus, the Seleucids, and Egypt. Well, the natural dogpiling of the Seleucid Empire starts up, with Parthia, Pontus, and Egypt blitzing them. I had to choose between Egypt and the Seleucids. I wish I'd chosen the SE, but I'd hope that the all-powerful Pharaoh would deem me friendly enough and leave me be. It was going well; I was getting 1400 denarii per turn and no enemies. Then it changed.

At this time, my income in one city had gone negative because of it's growth, and when it reached -1000, it completely negated my income. So I had to find a way for new money.

Pontus betrays me, blockading my only port. The blockade is lifted by a hastily constructed Armenian fleet. After about three years of doing nothing to each other, I gathered some Eastern Infantry, Hillmen, and Horse Archers under two generals to attack Malak (not sure about the name.) The garrison was pitiful; a general and a peltasts unit. I overran the garrison with a next-turn assault. I exterminated the populace, gaining a much-needed 4000 denarii. I'd also managed to kill their faction leader when he and 160 peltasts attacked my army of 240 hillmen being transferred to Malak.

About two turns later, the Seleucid Empire is stomped out by Egypt. Two turns after that, Egypt decides it hates me now and besieges Malak. Pontus also goes on the offensive, laying siege to one of my original cities. Pontus assaults the city, but is unable to take it when it's battering ram failed to break the gates for the cavalry and chariots to arrive. So their peltasts and Eastern Infantry are easily crushed.

Egypt gives me a way out of the war 2 turns before Malak surrendered. I could become their protectorate. Since I lacked the resources to engage in a war with Egypt, I agreed. I make peace with Pontus as a result, and they offer an alliance. I accepted, and Pontus and Egypt betray me again two turns later.


I'm stumped. My treasury is down to 200 denarii. My military is weak because of my low budget. Two of my cities are under siege, and the Egyptians are slowly transferring their armies north to the Armenian border. Anyone who's played as Armenia before knows that they can't stand up to Egypt so early on in the game. Egypt has the benefit of their original lands, plus at least three-fourths of the Seleucid Empire at their disposal. I'm dreading Egypt's assault on my city, because I know how hard it is to fight them (They have a unit of Pharaoh's Guards in their army >_< ). My entire army consists of hillmen, eastern infantry, horse archers, generals, and one cataphract unit. I won't last, and I don't want to cheat.

Help!
AuthorReplies:
Hussarknight
Seraph Emeritus
posted 08 June 2009 09:38 EDT (US)     1 / 13       
I think you're being to passive. Armenia's starting position is rather poor, so when you eventually get isolated without any trade partners (and this will happen, as the Ai doesn't like diplomacy) you'll have little to no income.

What you should try to do is build up quickly before Egypt starts banging on your door. Gather your starting units and march towards Pontus. Sinope in particular will help you a lot as it has some valuable black sea trade.

Once you've taken out Pontus you'll want to aim for Antioch. Wehtehr it's owned by the Seleucids or the Egpytians, it's a quite advanced city which will give you a good base against the Egyptians. With Antioch under your belt defeating the Egyptians will be a lot easier. If you can afford it, build a navy and use it to land an army in the Nile Delta and quickly take the Egyptian cities there. Without its economic powerhouse Egypt is in big trouble.

          Hussarknight
Tittus Labienus
Legionary
posted 08 June 2009 19:44 EDT (US)     2 / 13       
It sounds to me like you're trying to build a balenced army but with Armenia that just isn't possible until you get legions much later in the game. An Armenian full stack should consist of 1-3 generals, a pair of cataphracts, and two, yes two EI to push rams. The rest should be HAs. You have to be willing to take the patience and HA opposing armies to death. Keep them out of enemy archer range and pound them until you run out of arrows. Have the EI run the opposite direction at the battles begining, they're useless fighters anyway. Leave your cavalry out of it til the end to deliver the knockout punch. If there's still too many for your cavalry to handle then exit the battle (take the loss) and come at them next turn with a fresh arrow supply. I got a long campaign victory using these tactics. Good luck and happy fighting.

Lab
Drakedeath
Legionary
posted 08 June 2009 20:30 EDT (US)     3 / 13       
I'll restart the campaign and try that. I'm used to playing as the western factions, so I'm instinctively using my western tactics. Thanks.
Ianvs
Legionary
posted 09 June 2009 07:10 EDT (US)     4 / 13       
Hi Drakedeath,

Currently I am playing as Parthia on Medium/Medium, and using the tactics Tittus Labienus described, I was able to kill Egypt. Parthia starts in more or less the same way as Armenia, with crappy territories and no usefull units but the Horse Archers. It took me a while to get used to them, but after a while they were perfect for me.
The first few turns I was indeed allied to nearly all, but one by one I lost all my alliances in the east. HAs are decent against Egypt as long as you are able to evade their chariots and bowmen. I typically take these out first with 2 to 4 HAs on one unit, all the while evading other units. Once the dangerous units are gone, it is a simple matter of picking the units apart one by one.

For more tactics, take a look at SubRosa's AAR on the Warstory forum. She did a Parthian campaign once.

Good luck!

Ianvs
Lasting men
Legionary
posted 09 June 2009 16:47 EDT (US)     5 / 13       
personally im not very good at battles with HA but im great at the campaign map. So what i made up was a code of politics and discussion, they are as follows. you were broke and had a small army because of it. you have no trade routes because everyone hates you. you have a port for trade but its block and a nation thats apperantly smarter than you is about to pour gold down your throught and luagh and watch for intertainment. well why dont you do the same if you have money use to conquer area's and make life a bit easier for you with armys. if you have diplomats and money take thier armys you have ships block thier trade. pay civs to help you on your campaign. use spys to know there everymove and send assassins to kill there generals, diplomats and other men that annoy you. basicly use what you have, and what they have at the same time.

“We call Japanese soldiers fanatics when they die rather than surrender, whereas American soldiers who do the same thing are called heroes” - Robert Maynard Hutchins

“The notion that human life is sacred just because it is human life is medieval.” - Peter Singer
Bones40
Legionary
posted 09 June 2009 22:13 EDT (US)     6 / 13       
In my campaign I took both of Parthia's territories south of the Black sea in the first few turns. Through gifts I kept SE as allies, and the gifts helped them fend off Egypt for awhile. As Armenia, your armies should be pretty much all HA. One infantry unit is all I ever carried with me. This gives you deadly and cheap armies.

After Parthia I launched a sea invasion into Pontus, three cities at once. That crippled them and I promptly secured all of Asia Minor (SE had no holdings there). From there I was rolling in money, had armored spearmen (phalanx) and Cataphract HA's. I rolled over Egypt. It was no contest really.

The key is to get conquering right from the get go. Never leave armies idle. You'll probably need a couple armies to securing the passes into Scythia as they will come down every once in awhile. Just sit on the bridges with 5-10 HA's (less in the early game), and sit in loose formation around the bridge head and slaughter them as they cross the bridge.

For military construction in the early game only build the initial buildings to get basic HA's in all your settlements and the rest economic. Soon your HAs will have so much experience nothing will stand against them.

[This message has been edited by Bones40 (edited 06-09-2009 @ 10:25 PM).]

JrvUnleashed
Legionary
posted 09 June 2009 23:54 EDT (US)     7 / 13       
Yeah, like everyone else said, HA's are your best friend. Not only is a full stack of them nearly unbeatable with a little manuvering, but their cheap and easy to mass produce early in the game.
Hoppylyte
Legionary
posted 10 June 2009 00:02 EDT (US)     8 / 13       
I find a full stack of HA's overkill, half stack for maybe roman legions but otherwise a quarter stack can manhandle most armies as long as you remember to shoot them in the rear. Honestly though, Alliances in Rome is useless since the diplomacy AI is braindead and will often break a perfectly useful alliance just to blockade some misc. port. Blitzing the computer with HA's is perfectly acceptable in the absence of an intelligent AI. Also, you said that you went -1000 in a city because of growth? As far as I remember the number on the bottom of the city isn't a correct representation of how much cash it's actually bringing in. Instead it's a representation of how much military upkeep that city happens to be paying. The larger it is, the more portion of the military upkeep it's paying. So don't worry about that, cities earn more money the larger they get.
holeymad
Legionary
posted 10 June 2009 03:31 EDT (US)     9 / 13       
right now im doing an armenia campaign on medium/medium and ive created a stack of about 16 horse archers (they have various exp points) and im going round and quite easily getting most settlements.. if your wondering how im taking citys with just horse archers well i siege the place and wait until they come out to attack me wich they always do eventually then i wait until almost all units are out to attack my HA's i make an enemy unit rout and then as the gates open to let them in i charge 1 or 2 HA's in (depending on how many units are inside the settlement itself). than i run around capturing all the gates kill the enemy units inside and the ones outside cant get in!!!! then i make my units outside retreat (to save their numbers) and wait out the 3 minutes with the units on the inside and once thats over you win the settlement!!!!
it rocks i know

than i retrain the horses (if i can) make a cuple of units to protect the place and move on....


(if you dont beleive me a put up a video somewhere and link you to it)


anywho the best thing to do is recruit lots a horse archers there practically the only unit i use!


HOLEYMAD


EDIT: by the way armenias my favourite faction there early generaal rocks!!

all anarchsit groups in the world are oppossed to all sense of organisation and government...
and yet they all have leaders - holeymad

[This message has been edited by holeymad (edited 06-10-2009 @ 03:32 AM).]

Drakedeath
Legionary
posted 12 June 2009 06:47 EDT (US)     10 / 13       
I haven't really gotten a chance to play the game since I've been busy, but I'll be starting again today.
Erzin
Legionary
posted 13 June 2009 19:57 EDT (US)     11 / 13       
I also suggest not going north to Scythia. There is very little profit to be made there and theland is crawling with rebels.

AAR Coming real soon :P
Tittus Labienus
Legionary
posted 15 June 2009 12:21 EDT (US)     12 / 13       
Hey DD, here's a rather lengthy discussion about the Armenee

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=37268

Lab
Drakedeath
Legionary
posted 15 June 2009 22:38 EDT (US)     13 / 13       
Actually didn't start again till today.

I started out getting trades from Scythia, Parthia, Seleucids, Egypt and Pontus, but allying with all but Parthia. I took Phraaspa, the rebel city. It gave me doubled income. I trained craploads of Horse Archers, and moved a unit from Artaxarta to the Parthian city of Arsakia, taking it over easily. Shortly after, Egypt declared war on the Seleucid Empire, and I supported the SE, figuring I needed a buffer zone. Pontus also went to war, and I again stayed with the SE. After a few more turns, the SE agreed to become Egypt's protectorate, and they and Pontus declared a ceasefire.

Pontus laid siege to Kotais and Artaxarta, while Parthia tried to retake Arsakia. The Seleucids broke my alliance due to the terms of their protectorate, similar to you mandatorily cancelling a treaty if the Senate sends someone to war as Rome.

I held off an assault by the Ponts at Kotais. It was somewhat difficult, as they had two Scythed Chariots, but thanks to my many HAs and three generals, I won with minimal damage to my cavalry.

The assault on Antaxarta was harder. At one point, I got my peltasts back to the town square a second before it surrendered. My Antaxarta army had more infantry (2 peltasts, 1 EI, and 3 archers that I'd bribed off the rebels), with about 4 HAs, 1 CA, and 1 general. This Pontic Army was more infantry based, and fell easier after I got my cavalry around.

Parthia is still besieging Arsakia.


Update

Held off the last siege with difficulty (Parthia had brought a ton of HAs), and then proceeded to push south to Dumatha, which had been taken by Parthia. It was defended by two Eastern Generals, one slinger, and one HA. The slingers and HA were down to 18 and 19 men, respectively, so I just sat outside the city with 6 HAs and shot down everyone. I took Dumatha, thus destroying Parthia. As it turns out, Sakae had rebeled beforehand, and so they lost it.

Also held off two Pontic sieges at Kotais and Artaxarta. Before I could refocus forces to attack Pontus, though, the Egyptians besieged Dumatha. Fortunately, my HAs were still there and shot the skirmishers and melee infantry to pieces. Egypt also demanded that I become a protectorate, declaring "All Your Base Are Belong To Us." I refused.

Syrian Rebels forced the Seleucids out of Seleucia, so I rushed in and took the city with minimal losses.

[This message has been edited by Drakedeath (edited 06-17-2009 @ 10:13 PM).]

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