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Total War Heaven » Forums » Rome: Total War Discussion » Mysterious Mercenaries and Miscellaneous
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Topic Subject:Mysterious Mercenaries and Miscellaneous
Mons Badonicus
Legionary
posted 09 January 2016 02:35 EDT (US)         
So after watching Time Commanders and Decisive Battles I noticed that there were some featured units that didn't appear in RTW. I also read somewhere that the producers of the shows had gained access to a special pre-release version of RTW which was different to the vanilla version we all came to love and enjoy.

But one unit caught my eye. It appears to be a barbarian unit wielding a Celtic longsword and shield. It's similar to the Naked Fanatics (except they wear trousers and have different hair).

Here's what they look like.


The unit in question can be found on the Mercenary Recruitment Icon (he is on the left). It looks like he's holding the spear but he's not, his sword is behind the guy in front.

Closeup.


So... why didn't these guys make it into the game? It would have been so nice to have them around.

Ave.

Papers, please.

[This message has been edited by Terikel Grayhair (edited 01-09-2016 @ 07:10 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 09 January 2016 07:12 EDT (US)     1 / 14       
They probably got axed in the name of 'game balance' or such.

Or they duplicated the Swordsmen. Notice that their color is Briton Blue.

A unit of Swordsmen and a unit of men armed with Celtic Swords would be very similar indeed.

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vanka123
Legionary
posted 09 January 2016 18:17 EDT (US)     2 / 14       
So, do you have any more detail about this mecernary?
Such as cost or attack point?
Mons Badonicus
Legionary
posted 10 January 2016 01:19 EDT (US)     3 / 14       
As regards to the blue colour, I think that they are Carthaginian soldiers, just with a different colour scheme. I also remember one of the military historians say that they were Gauls, so...

I don't know about the stats for this but I would assume maybe they would be similar to the Naked Fanatics. One thing is certain though; the unit has low armour.

I guess if they were intended as a Carthaginian or Gallic unit, they would use the appropriate colour. What I don't understand is the reason that these guys were axed to balance the game.

Carthage, especially in Hannibal's case, employed large numbers of friendly Gauls in their armies. Also, Gaul should have better infantry as they get beaten up by Britannia, Germania and the Julii a lot of times. A better early game unit would maybe give them a chance to stay alive.

In my opinion, the game would be more balanced if that unit were allowed in. Also, a military historian said that the Gauls, especially those living in Cisalpine Gaul had good barbarian cavalry. Whether this is 100% accurate, I don't know, but the game developers should have given Gaul better cavalry, or, at the very least, unique cavalry.

Papers, please.

[This message has been edited by Mons Badonicus (edited 01-10-2016 @ 01:23 AM).]

ShieldWall
Legionary
posted 11 January 2016 03:55 EDT (US)     4 / 14       
Time Commanders! There's a blast from the past, I had to make do with watching it before I had a computer which was good enough to play RTW. The programme used the RTW engine but often represented eras which were outside that of the game - most of them were based very broadly around it - Alexander to late Roman, but you did have battles as early as Qadesh (1274 BC) and as late as Hastings (1066 AD). So they had to be pretty flexible on unit types, in fact if you look at images from Time Commanders, there aren't many which made it into the game.

As to the unit itself, yes some sort of Celtic swordsmen is clearly being implied here, maybe on a par with Woad Warriors in the game or just standard swordsmen. You're right that Gaul has a tough time of it in RTW - their problem is that they're surrounded by enemies and their two most powerful cities are right on Rome's doorstep, and so will be lost in a few turns. I think the units they have available though are pretty powerful - nobody can grumble at Chosen Swordsmen, Noble Cavalry are good enough, and anyone who's fought Foresters will know what a pain they can be. Gaul's problem though is that it can't survive long enough for these units to come into play, so usually most of what they can field are based around warbands. They carry spears, and swords always beat spears.
Mons Badonicus
Legionary
posted 11 January 2016 06:02 EDT (US)     5 / 14       
True. As the Julii, the Gauls never fielded many truly elite units and I beat them quite easily. The Britons, though..... ugh.

Papers, please.

[This message has been edited by Mons Badonicus (edited 01-11-2016 @ 06:02 AM).]

Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 12 January 2016 02:22 EDT (US)     6 / 14       
The Britons sacrifice cavalry for chariots, which in the early games against anyone but the Germans just literally runs over the competition.

Even cavalry fare poorly against the chariot.

It is a shame though that the later Briton units are more average for their tier.

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Mons Badonicus
Legionary
posted 13 January 2016 00:26 EDT (US)     7 / 14       
In my current campaign, the Britons are going on a rampage and have reached Massilia (the southernmost city I have seen them capture) and are now making a mess of the Germans. Ew.

I also encountered a minor and a major bug in my current (Brutii) campaign. Yes, I do love the Brutii. Anyway;

Bug
1. My assassin was headed for Tylis to kill the Thracian family member there. I also had one of my spies in there but when I opened the Assasinations tab it listed my spy as an option. Then when I moved him out of the city, and tried to right click on him using my assassin, nothing happened.

2. This is the major one. So I was fighting a battle against Macedon and I routed all of their units. However, one of my units kept on walking in one direction and turning around and stopping, before turning around and walking.

It repeated the process and the only way for it to stop was to give it a command after which it kept on being weird. It also said it was fighting and the balance of power was in my favour but not completely yet; there was around 7% of enemy forces that were still on the field. But the thing is; I routed all the enemy units! So eventually I had to quit the battle before I wasted too much time. What was that?

I didn't want to create another thread for this, partly because I couldn't be bothered.

Ave.

Papers, please.
General Sajaru
Tribunus Laticlavius
posted 17 January 2016 22:51 EDT (US)     8 / 14       
1. That's a rather odd bug that, as far as I'm aware, I've never encountered before. Maybe try again next turn and see what happens?

2. I'm guessing they were either fighting a "dead" unit- but I've never had that prevent me from ending a battle- or there was a lone enemy soldier still on the battle map that hadn't yet made it off, preventing you from ending the battle. In the latter case, find the enemy unit marker on the mini-map, then zoom in until you can see the individual dots of units and try to locate the lone soldier so you can kill him.

Also, until a routed unit leaves the map, it doesn't update percentages and such.

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Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 18 January 2016 08:13 EDT (US)     9 / 14       
I've seen the first one quite often. So often, in fact, that I thought presenting your spy was what is was supposed to do.

As for the other problem, General Sajaru told it like it is. It is especially difficult to track down pieces of 'exploded units' - routers that separate all over the map. Hunting them down and killing them one by one is the only way- otherwise the unit 'fighting' them will never be able to complete the kill.

Units move to attack the center of the target unit. Usually as units lose men, the formation shrinks. But at times the unit 'explodes' and puts pieces everywhere. Your attacking unit will move to the center of the target and try to engage the soldiers, which are usually like two thousand paces away.

I usually run light cavalry everywhere and do as Sajaru said- hunt the little shits down and wipe them out pixel by pixel. It is the only way.

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[This message has been edited by Terikel Grayhair (edited 01-20-2016 @ 03:54 AM).]

General Sajaru
Tribunus Laticlavius
posted 18 January 2016 17:48 EDT (US)     10 / 14       
Oops, misread that first one; I thought you went to assassinate someone in town and only saw your spy, then took your spy out of town and couldn't subsequently find the guy in town to assassinate. As Terikel says, showing your own spy as a potential assassination target while he's in town is standard; I'm guessing that they didn't want to have to differentiate a human controlled spy from the A.I. controlled ones and therefore just show all of them.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction." - Ronald Reagan
"Judge them not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
"Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen." - Jeff Cooper
"I like my enemies like James Bond likes his martinis- shaken, not stirred."
My first book, The King's Own
Mons Badonicus
Legionary
posted 18 January 2016 18:23 EDT (US)     11 / 14       
Ave.

I had considered the fact that the buggers might just be scattered over the place but the minimap clearly indicated that all the enemy units had left the field...

But if the unit (it was a unit of Hastati) was chasing a routed unit, it would be separated from the rest of the army running off to slash some Macedonians. I've seen cases where a unit just routs straight into your lines, but never something like that.

Papers, please.
Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 20 January 2016 03:56 EDT (US)     12 / 14       
The Minimap shows also center of mass of units. The Center of mass may have left the battlefield, but isolated individuals may remain on it.

Get used to it.

Hunt the little shits down and kill them, or put the battle on 3x speed and wait.

Them's yer choices, dude.

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Somewhere over the EXCO Rainbow
Master Skald, Order of the Silver Quill, Guild of the Skalds
Champion of the Sepia Joust- Joust I, II, IV, VI, VII, VIII
ShieldWall
Legionary
posted 21 January 2016 11:34 EDT (US)     13 / 14       
If it takes too long, and it can, zoom your map in as far as it will go as it will show every individual person rather than the unit. Ride cavalry around until you find your lone enemy. If you click attack they won't ride to him but towards the centre of the unit mass, so find out which direction that is in, move your cavalry so the man is between you and it, then when you attack they should ride him down on the way. And then come to a stop because everything else is off the battlefield.
Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 22 January 2016 00:52 EDT (US)     14 / 14       
That is an important point.

Do not ATTACK the spread out fools! As Shieldwall points out, attacking sends the center of mass of the attacking unit against the center of mass of the target.

Use Move. Move your cavalry to a point on the opposite side of the targeted soldier. Your horsemen wil ride there and kill everything enemy in their path- including little lost soldiers from exploded units.

|||||||||||||||| A transplanted Viking, born a millennium too late. |||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Too many Awards to list in Signature, sorry lords...|||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Listed on my page for your convenience and envy.|||||||||||||||||
Somewhere over the EXCO Rainbow
Master Skald, Order of the Silver Quill, Guild of the Skalds
Champion of the Sepia Joust- Joust I, II, IV, VI, VII, VIII
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