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Topic Subject:Medimod
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CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 25 May 2007 04:42 EDT (US)         
http://hosted.filefront.com/JakeCavCom/

MediModInstal_v_0.75.zip (0.9 full version to be added soon)
MediModPatch_0.75_to_0.9.zip

;; descr_cultures.txt ; When compiling the patch, I missed this file. (V 0.9) it is rather vital for long-term AI performance. Add to C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\medimod\data folder.

Update v 0.9
Requires 1.2 Patch for Medieval 2; Total War
Includes Character Names Project Mod v 3.00

-Forth beta by Jake aka HG_CavalryCmdr
--Andrew aka HG_SwampRat - Bug Reporting ; AI behavioral consultant

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: Medimod institutes a 'kill the human player' mode if the human faction is 'at war' with any faction other then Rebels before turn 10. This can only occur if the human attacks another faction, AI factions will NEVER start a war before this time (unless the human activates this mode) It is irreversible, all factions will dedicate all their resources to killing you. Actually can be kind of fun....

First thank you for trying this mod and any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Install instructions;
ONLY IF YOU ALREADY HAVE MediMod v 0.75!!!

1. Unzip files into your Medieval 2 folder.

2. Click 'yes' to over write all files asked.

3. PlayMedimod(.bat)

IMPORTANT NOTE; Medimod dose not change ANY core Medieval 2 files to uninstall simply delete the Medimod folder, Config_builder.bat ; PlayMedimod.bat ; Medimod.cfg ; modcfg.txt and this file.

Another Note ; Difficulty levels have a serious impact on playing the game. If you enjoy a balanced playing experience with reasonable difficulty I recommend Normal. If you enjoy challenging game play with powerful armies of better quality units Hard. If you enjoy continuous warfare against mass assaults then Very Hard.
In my opinion Hard is actually more difficult later in the game because the AI on Very Hard spamís low-level units until they simply do not have the money to upgrade their settlements properly, so they are still stuck with those same low grade armies when the Human is marching around with Musket men and Chivalric knights.

Recommendations:
- This mod is designed specifically with 'hard' campaign difficulty in mind, though others are considered, hard is definitely best for experienced players.

V 0.9 fixes/changes

- More fluid and consistent AI performance

- Increase overall awareness of AI

- AI now maintains siege or initiates assaults more intelligently

- Better multi-army cooperation

- Better multi-faction cooperation

- Less 'team up on weak faction' / more 'team up on strong faction'

- Increased AI settlement development

- Increases 'Diplomatic interaction' even further.

- Greatly increased the effects of devastation.

- Removed 'short campaign victory' from AI priorities

What is Medimod.
Simply put it is at it's core an AI mod that overhauls all the workings of the long term AI strategies without really changing Vanilla M2 that much.

Major AI features/improvements

- AI will now plan mass assaults when initiating a war. No more 2 or 3 unit siege attempts, more likely 2 or 3 stack armies attacking 1 or 2 of your (or other AI opponents) settlements.

- AI prefers to fight single front wars, and will prefer not to start war if they are already fighting one. Unless their current opponent is not a challenge.

- AI is far more likely to accept/offer peace when they are being beaten, but will often require some serious bribery if they are winning.

- AI prefers not to start war with more powerful opponent who are not overly aggressive, and will seek aid BEFORE starting a war with more aggressive powerful opponents. A peaceful campaign is entirely possible if you maintain a strong military force.

- When at war with multiple opponents the AI will concentrate it's efforts on the most powerful. However the AI recognizes that human players are more dangerous, and so will often concentrate on them more then a slightly more powerful AI opponent (extent depends on difficulty level)

- The AI will be a little more likely to initiate war with humans playing hard or very hard difficulty, but never to the exclusion of other considerations.

- The AI has a small random element to it's decision process meaning you can never be entirely sure what they are going to do in any given situation. This is a relatively small effect, so totally out-of-character acts are very rare.

- All starting factions have independent AI subroutines, some are more aggressive, some are less. Some want allies while others prefer to go it alone. For example the Holy Roman Empire is very aggressive while Scotland tends to be less so, except where England is concerned or if they are attacked.

Other features

- The first 10 rounds are considered 'Rebel land grab' meaning the AI will not attack any other faction except rebels. It is HIGHLY recommended that the human player dose the same. If the human player attacks any faction other then rebels before turn 10 ALL faction irrevocably switch to 'Kill the Human' mode and will dedicate all their resources to killing you. Actually can be kind of fun....

- Increased campaign map movement; this is in place purely for AI performance, changing this will result in inferior/uneven AI activities.

- Re-emergent factions. There is a very good likelihood that any base faction will re-appear after being defeated. Unlike Medieval 1 they appear with relatively weak armies and will only re-appear once. Though they are weak, if they have a chance to claim a settlement and bolster their forces it is possible (though unlikely) they can build themselves up. I have been unable to modify whatever AI they use when in Horde form, it also dose not appear in the LTGD log so I can tell you little about it. However they appear to v-line it for a capital and attack (apparently at random)

- slight adjustments to the Trait and Ancillary triggers ; includes princess fix and modifies some in a manner I consider better (most notably the Pagan Magician appears much less often). These are unimportant, feel free to replace these files with others of your choice, or if you disagree with how I have them working you can simply delete them.

- Complete re-balance of beginning situation. Perhaps 'balance' is not the right word, but it works well as without human influence any given faction can become powerful in the long term. I have modified and adjusted to get optimum early activity from the AI. However there are some exceptions/bugs I have been unable to fix. These are
If Russia fails to take Helsinki in their first attempt they stagnate for quite some time.
If Scotland fails to take Dublin in their first attempt they will almost never try again (though they do remain otherwise fully active)
If Byzantium fails to take Smyrna in their first attempt the army that attacked will become inactive untile Smyrna is owned by a faction other then rebels
I'm sure there are others I have not particularly noticed, but all in all these little glitches really add to the game as it creates more variety in who your more powerful opponents might be.

- Money and city growth. Basically there is less of both. Factions start with considerably less money, and settlements make less until a strong trade economy is built up making early expansion much more difficult. This is mostly a difficulty feature and all AI factions receive a one time 5000 bonus at the beginning of the game to offset this. This is necessary since the AI is incapable of 'saving money' to build key buildings and is thus unable to build said trade economy without it.

- AI factions only pay 1/2 upkeep for all agents (NOT troops) this is because the AI has a highly annoying feature of spamming agents (such as spies assassins and priests) who then do nothing but sit in the settlement sucking up money. Set income bonuses just add to this problem in the long term.

A FEW NOTES ON HOW MEDIMOD AI THINKS;
-- First, the goal of Medimod is balance, not difficulty, though I belive difficulty is acheved through balance almost as much as cheating.
With this goal in mind, there are a few instances where the AI will acknowladge the difference between a human faction and an AI one. This section outlines these differences and provides a brief explanation as to why I felt it was necassary to impliment them.

-- The AI..
- My reason is..

-- Is slightly less inclined to want an alliance with humans (amount dependent on dificulty) then other AI factions. Actually they are slightly more inclind to ally with humans playing easy and it goes down from there. It dose not mean they will not ask for an alliance as they would another AI faction, just that they are willing to give less to make the alliance happen.
- Reduces the 'ally with everyone for cash' exploit to a more reasonable level.

-- Will not want peace with a human just because they are the protectorate of a trusted ally. This is one of the biggest seperations between human and AI factions.
- If they did, the human could attack thier lieg's ally, then demand money for a ceasefire and they would accept, every time. AI protectorates are unable to attack anyone not in thier or thier lieg's territory.

-- Is more inclined to attack the human if they are playing a harder difficulty then easy when already at war with them.
- This simply identifies to the AI that the human enemy is more a threat to them then an AI enemy. This is only activated WHEN ALREADY AT WAR.

-- Depending on difficulty the AI differentiats AI and Human factions when deciding whether or not to start a war in the following manner.
Easy ; slightly less inclined to start a war with humans over AI
Medium ; Considers humans and AI factions the same for starting war.
Hard ; Slightly more inclined to start a war with the human over an AI faction.
Very Hard ; More likely in general to attack the human over an AI faction.
- Simply to more differentiate the different difficulty levels. Again these effects are not huge (though noticable on very hard), for example, if all other considerations are the same, the AI is still more likely to attack an AI faction they are neutral with then a human playing very hard they are allied with.

-- The slave faction might attack the human after turn 25 (I think, but wont swere to this one, they should, I tell them to, but I have not had it happen yet) It is a random chance based on difficulty (no chance on easy).
- The idea here is simply to force the human to pay more attention.

-- Ofcourse there's 'kill the human player' mode ALL AI factions will enter if the human attacks any faction other then the rebels before turn 10.
- This is a multi-purpose trigger, first it's a difficulty measure, eliminating the chance of eliminating an AI faction before they have a chance to defend themselves. Second it's for players like me who like to build an empire first and crush thier opponants second, this allows you to 'get set' before the AI onslaught as it were. Third its a balance trigger, it allows larger factions to build up what they have and smaller factions to become large enough to atleast fight the larger, more powerful, factions.
I like to look at this as a briefing on the alternate history that occured BEFORE the start of the game.

---- Other notes concerning Medimod AI, In these areas there is no seperation between Human and AI factions. ---

-- In Vanilla they countered larger factions by lowering the other factions standings toward them. Medimod reduces these effects drastically, replacing them with a general likelyness that weaker factions will attack more powerful factions if opportunity presents. This is relative to the strength of the weaker faction. More powerful, but still weaker, factions will attempt to exploit the slightest weakness while much weaker factions will only attack if they trully see a chance for victory.

-- There is an overide that drastically increases the likelyhood of attack if any faction becomes too overpowering. At this point all weaker factions will become unreasonable in the hopes that, if they try hard enough, they might weaken this supreame power. I feel it important to stress this is an exteamely overpowering faction, if you trigger this before owning half the map I will be truely impressed. While it is unlikely an AI faction will ever become powerful enough to trigger this, the requirements are quite the same for them as for human factions.

-- Medimod is an attempt to create more 'diplomatic interaction.' I'm affraid there may have been some misunderstanding as to my meaning. I do not expect (or even say it's a good idea) having an army of diplomats running around and giving away map info an 100 florins evey turn, to keep your allies liking you. This might work I suppose, though not as well as it dose in vanilla.
The suggested way to keep allies liking you is, well, to be allied to them. If they are at war with someone, go to war with them as well, I dont mean drop everything and attack them, I mean be in a general state of war, blockade ports, cause devestation in thier land, interupt thier trade, maybe bribe or pick off a small army here and there, take over watchtowers or lightly defended forts, anything that says 'Im with you on this one buddy' and your allies will like you for it (thier allies wont, but hey what would you expect..) If you trully want to be an ally get military access (pretty easy with allies, usually give and take equal value trade) and help them defend thier lands, they'll do the same for you (usually).
Additionally, going to war effects your reputation and general political standing differently in Medimod then Vanilla. In Vanilla, the best way to attack an ally was, attacking him. In Medimod, unless you enjoy having a bad rep and everyone hating you, I strongly suggest not doing that (thier enemies will even like you less if you use that rout.) Use diplomacy, if your allied, cancel your alliance first. If your neutral, threaten them first. It works like this: Threaten with a 'value' of demanding to balanced, if they refuse, attack them the same turn, it will not be considered an 'undeclared' attack. If they accept, DO NOT ATTACK, not only is it considered an undeclared attack, but also breaking a treaty agreement (this will devastate your reputation.) Instead, wait a couple turns (3 or 4) and repeate. If the 'value' of the threat is 'very demanding' it's considered an outrage, negating the declaration of attack, if the 'value' is higher then balanced the problem is they will likely accept.
In general it's a good idea to know who your friend are and who your enemies are, and further more, know who thier friends and enemies are, it's all interconnected in the world of polotics. I wouldnt be overly suprised if it were posible to rule the world of Medimod with political influence alone (though you'd need decent military and financial influence to achive that level of policial influence)

At long last I hope you enjoy this little mod and would greatly appreciate any feedback, good and especially bad. - Jake

[This message has been edited by CavalryCmdr (edited 08-16-2007 @ 02:48 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Lasha
Legionary
posted 25 May 2007 06:28 EDT (US)     1 / 187       
wow! looks great. I'll be sure to give it a little test out when its released for launch Did you do all of it yourself? if so, I just have to say wow again.


One question, do you know the compatibility of the mod with other mods such as lands to conquor and Dues Lo Vult?

EDIT: Just thought of another, which files do you edit and change, so I can back them up before playing the mod (usually I would back everything up, but space is limitted and the game is huge)


once again, thanks for all the hard work, it seems to be great go you

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[This message has been edited by MyArse (edited 20-08-2009 @ 19:50 PM).]

[This message has been edited by Lasha (edited 05-25-2007 @ 06:39 AM).]

Ar_Kai
Legionary
posted 25 May 2007 08:04 EDT (US)     2 / 187       
Looks great, but what version of Med2 will it be for? I agree with Lasha, it would be great if it could work with other mods. Medimod + Lands to Conquer would be pretty spectacular.
CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 25 May 2007 08:17 EDT (US)     3 / 187       
Yes, I did all the work, and upto now playtesting myself (thats why I call it a beta, obviously test-time was limited)

Compatability will depend on the files edited in the mod. I only have dial-up so I quite unable to determine compatability with any major mods.
I will happily make the mod fully compatible with any mod that someone will take the time to zip all the files I changed from the mod they want it compatable with, but not until it has more play-test time/tweaks then just what I have been able to do.

The files changed are actually quite few, I will set it up in a mod folder with config builder and play.bat file. So no backing up will be necassary (though you will need to copy some files from your base directory into medimod to get sound-effects etc)

Oh, I should have mentiond this will be require 1.2 patch.

[This message has been edited by CavalryCmdr (edited 05-25-2007 @ 08:18 AM).]

lionheart_zell
Legionary
posted 25 May 2007 17:16 EDT (US)     4 / 187       
Hi all, its my not so grand return !!!!

Sorry but i have been busy with GCSE exams so i haven't had much time for gaming, but i will now as its half term YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But anyway, this mod sounds UBER !!!! i will be downloading it the very second the link goes live !!!!

Looking forward to friday !!!!!!!


YO ALL IM BACK !!!!!!! LONG LIVE ME !!!!!
Medio
Legionary
(id: Mediolanus)
posted 25 May 2007 17:20 EDT (US)     5 / 187       
I like the name of this mod
Ar_Kai
Legionary
posted 25 May 2007 17:43 EDT (US)     6 / 187       
Aww. Until further notice, I have no access to patch 1.2.
CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 25 May 2007 19:42 EDT (US)     7 / 187       
Aww. Until further notice, I have no access to patch 1.2.
I know how you feel, with dialup I was forced to travel to my in-laws who have cable, I needed to bring my secondary PC for the cd-burner, then bring the cd home. However I must say it was WELL worth the trouble.

Sadly the pre- 1.2 format is incapable of making a decent AI without spending months of dedicated effort, as it would simply stop the file sequence when it met with a 'true' condition. Basically every decision entry needed to encompass all considerations the AI should take into account... I spent a couple weeks on it and had a somewhat ok AI, the script for a single subroutine was some 300 entries long, and, I repeat, it was somewhat OK.

1.1 had many other limitation quickly capping on those right of the top of my head
-No random numbers, thus even a remotely unpredictable AI is imposable. With this AI even I donít know exactly what it will do in any given situation.
-No LTGD trace (Long Term Goal Decision) meaning I had to watch the AI every turn, now I am able to skip through, say, 30 turns and read what the AI was 'thinking' all along the way. An invaluable trouble-shooting device to say the least.
-No max/min settings for the attack priorities, meaning the AI would try to attack everyone it encountered an attack order for, consider a % of resources. This resulted in almost non-stop 1 turn blockades, seeing as my entire AI format is based on priorities instead of simple yes/no attack orders.

Well, I'm sure you can see by now why I decided to wait for 1.2, thereís quite a bit more, but I wont bore you with all the details.

I'm affraid this will be my last entry until Friday, the rest of my free time this week will be dedicated to final touches.

[This message has been edited by CavalryCmdr (edited 05-25-2007 @ 07:48 PM).]

Ar_Kai
Legionary
posted 27 May 2007 04:39 EDT (US)     8 / 187       
Incidentally, you may want to think of another name. Not that I have anything against Medimod, just that there is another M2TW mod out called Medifix.
CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 07 June 2007 18:34 EDT (US)     9 / 187       
;updated;
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 08 June 2007 05:03 EDT (US)     10 / 187       
Good work CavalryCmdr.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

Lasha
Legionary
posted 08 June 2007 13:25 EDT (US)     11 / 187       
Right, I promised to try it out, so thats what I'm going to be doing over the weekend. I promise to give feed back on it, seeing as it is in Beta Stage, but something tells me hardly anything will be negative

Like gaius said, great work

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[This message has been edited by MyArse (edited 20-08-2009 @ 19:50 PM).]
CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 09 June 2007 01:04 EDT (US)     12 / 187       
There is actually 3 things wrong with it that I will be working on this week.

1. I forgot to implement Excommunication as a element for attack priority (Oops, easy fix though, I already have it in a separate file I just forgot to include it in the final descr_campaign_ai_db.xml when I compiled the separate priorities)

2. France behaves erratic in the early game, I was unable to find a good starting location for their beginning forces (one of their 2 attack armies always wants to attack whatever settlement in NOT nearby)

3. The hard coded AI is completely incapable of dealing with the separation of Cities/Castles, I'm strongly considering removing it. I like the idea mind you, but it has such a detrimental effect on the AI......

;EDIT;
Since I posted most recently I didnít want to post again immediately after myself so...
4 downloads and no feedback yet, so I decided to note some of my own feedback after playing this mod more.
First, the AI seems to lack aggression, there are a couple reasons for this that will be addressed when I update on Friday.
-The AI is designed to take TOTAL army strength into consideration to not attack someone, I'm going to change this to be army strength plus enemies so they will more consider available army strength as a threat. This should limit the player's ability to eliminate one enemy at a time while keeping others at bay through intimidation.
-The AI wants to build it's armies too much before attacking, also lacks in considering 'open' targets. This one was tougher to fix as 'frontline_balance' is much more an abstract number then would be thought. However, through excessive study of the LTGD log I'm confident I've found a solution.
-The AI will not except ceasefire after a catastrophic defeat if you initiated the attack (though they will if they attack and lose). This I am still working on.
-The AI will refuse to become your vassal, then on their immediate turn following your proposal will ask to become your vassal. This is really annoying, I WILL figure it out.
-After economy is built up money is more plentiful then I had initially intended. I'm not sure if I want to 'fix' this yet though, it sort of makes the game more exciting if you can look forward to greater amounts of cash.

[This message has been edited by CavalryCmdr (edited 06-12-2007 @ 07:22 PM).]

RepublicRoman
Legionary
posted 13 June 2007 23:11 EDT (US)     13 / 187       
Is there any mod like this for Rome Toatal War? That would be Great!
CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 13 June 2007 23:50 EDT (US)     14 / 187       
Sorry the AI in Rome TW was largely hard-coded.
Selifator
Legionary
posted 14 June 2007 12:20 EDT (US)     15 / 187       
which, I assume, makes it impossible to mod? Kudos for you still, I barely manage to make the faction-swap. Anything more complicated and I need to pick up my brain.

You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.

Chauvinism is not a particularly nice trait at the best of times but can be suicidal when the person your talking too can have you executed on a whim.

Facebook, anyone?
CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 14 June 2007 14:26 EDT (US)     16 / 187       
which, I assume, makes it impossible to mod?
Yes, 'hard-coded' means impossible to mod. That is without cracking the .exe and even then you'd have to trace that part of the program then re-write it in the language it was originally written (probably C+ or visual C). In effect, besides being illegal and marginally immoral, it wouldnít really be worthwhile unless you're very good at AI programming (not just logic routine such as this, but much more complex)
CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 15 June 2007 21:46 EDT (US)     17 / 187       
;Updated;
Marshall Thomas
Legionary
posted 16 June 2007 07:28 EDT (US)     18 / 187       
Thanks very much for the update.

I know you've addressed this before, but how does the Medimod differ from the UAI mod? I've yet to use any mods, and right now the only ones I'm interested in are the Medimod and the UAI mod.

I'm just about to install the Medimod right now. I'll post feedback soon. Thanks again for this opportunity to use Medimod.
Lasha
Legionary
posted 16 June 2007 11:37 EDT (US)     19 / 187       
hey, as promised I'm playing it now (later than I intended due to exams), and so far so good.

I can notice the effects immediately, with my enemy marshalling its armies more effectively, and diplomacy appears to be more... normal shall we say.

Only one issue, on loading an autosaved game it turned off the FOW, meaning I can now see whats going on all over the world, even in the americas (before discovering it).

Only a small issue, but thought I would let you know.



EDIT: It only happened the once, and disapeared by going to an earlier save game, so dont worry about the above.

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[This message has been edited by MyArse (edited 20-08-2009 @ 19:50 PM).]

[This message has been edited by Lasha (edited 06-16-2007 @ 01:31 PM).]

CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 16 June 2007 22:59 EDT (US)     20 / 187       
I'm just about to install the Medimod right now. I'll post feedback soon. Thanks again for this opportunity to use Medimod.
Feedback would be great, anything you think could use improvement wrould be fantastic.
And, I thank you for trying this Mod, though it is much better for my gaming style, in playtesting I have descovered that I am simply unable to play in a completely different manner.
I can notice the effects immediately, with my enemy marshalling its armies more effectively.
I hope you updated to 0.5 because if you didnt that's likely all they will do is muster them, looking for a chance to strike, but I had not identified to them when to strike if thier total army strength was not greater then yours. That's one key improvement of 0.5 over the first.

[This message has been edited by CavalryCmdr (edited 06-16-2007 @ 11:01 PM).]

SwampRat
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 17 June 2007 08:00 EDT (US)     21 / 187       
righto, I've played a Venice campaign on medimod 0.5 for quite a few turns on medium. Its largely good, most of the armies which are wandering about are quite large etc. With the money, I had no trouble building a nice strong economy (not hit the black death yet where it normally goes a bit wrong), but that could be more to do with being venice than anything else. I used merchants briefly but i'm never very good and they got taken over so I gave up, 600 per turn with a low level merchant on the silk at Constantinople was a lot maybe. The reemergent factions work quite well (not overpowered, but there).

On the downside - factions seem quite keen on declaring war on me and then asking for peace (paying about 2k to get me to let them have a ceasefire). Generally I wasnt doing anything to apease them and had they carried on attacking then they had a decent ish chance against my cities. Also to top it off, the ceasefire generally didnt last very long, sometimes with them attacking in the same turn as they'd begged for peace. In that regard, its a step backward I'd say. Sometimes there were some interesting seiges too where the balance of power was estimated at about 3-1 in my favour - why attack when a sally is so likely to work (there didnt seem to be any great advantage to it, although I'd admit to seiging the AI sometimes when I wouldnt expect to win).

All in all, quite good but I found the indecisiveness a bit tedious.
CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 17 June 2007 17:23 EDT (US)     22 / 187       
I'll get to work on it immediately, should be an easy fix on the 'want peace'... I hadnít re-balanced that after re-aligning the attack priorities.

As for the small army sieges, that's rather strange I've never seen it. My guess is it was a coastal settlement and they had reinforcement en-rout by sea. Unfortunately the AI seems incapable of judging distance by sea, one turn away or 20 makes no difference to the AI (or the rest of the game for that matter, thus the large-scale disbands when moving a crusade by sea)
Also, I've seen the AI 'fake' meaning attempt to move your troops away from their primary target by besieging with a force just big enough so a sally attempt might not work. I doubt that was the case though I've only seen it twice and their real target both times were heavily garrisoned castles.

Doh... I think I know the cause of the indecisiveness. When I re-wrote the descr_campaign_ai_db I shortened it by melding all similar elements from the different stances into universal elements. I used the 'AtWar' random element which was significantly higher then the 'Neutral' and 'Allied' (so the AI wouldnít consistently ignore anyone they were at war with) I had lowered the other stance randomness for that very reason (they would besiege with ok chances, then ask ceasefire, withdraw, and repeat)
I had shortened it because in itís previous state, late game had a significant end turn wait while the AI decided what to do.

Stupid me.

The small army sieges however really has me puzzled, could you possibly give me more info on them? (such as how often, always or never coastal, castles, high income cities, ANY connection between them and I should be able to pinpoint and fix the problem quickly)

Another possibility is if your army strength far-surpassed theirs, they would try to 'distract' you. That is intentional (open the faction ranking scroll to army strength, if they are significantly lower then you, that would be the cause). That should only happen when you are at war with them or one of thier allies.

;EDIT;
I've done some play, and of course saw the indecisive nature you referred to. After fixing the mistakes I mentioned earlier, increasing the effects of ceasefire (they will still attack if an immediate and irresistible opportunity exists though) and adding a number of enemies limit to attack priorities (I had taken it out thinking that using military_balance_plus_enemies would make it redundant) to match the 'want peace' minimum enemies, I am happy to say it's virtually gone. (virtually meaning I have not seen any such activities since, but I have only played a few hours so I cant say for certain 'completely gone')

Such a simple stupid mistake made the entire mod useless, you have no idea how annoyed I am at myself right now...

I have still not seen the small army sieges you referred to, if you could answer a couple more questions concerning them, that would be immensely helpful.
Are you a 'warmonger' type player? Such difference from my own style would almost certainly pull out some bugs I've not been able to see.
What do they do if you donít sally forth? I'm thinking if they simply leave the next turn it could be related to the 'indecisive' bug.

[This message has been edited by CavalryCmdr (edited 06-17-2007 @ 11:48 PM).]

CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 18 June 2007 01:09 EDT (US)     23 / 187       
;Updated;

I uploaded a small patch that fixes the stupid mistake I had made. (see last 2 posts)

Thank you SwampRat, I apologize to all who have tried (and probably not liked much) 0.5, please donít let my stupid mistake deter you too much.

If any such indecisiveness dose still exist I can easily fix it, however it will make the AI less likely to accept a ceasefire in a situation where neither side has actively participated in a current war. Meaning you've been at-war for 10 turns but have not fought a battle/trespassed for 5, with the current setting they will usually accept a ceasefire.

If the problem still exists I will try to do some work on the 'faction standings' to make them like you less when they start a war if they already like you enough that they want peace. Failing that I will increase the faction standing requirement for want peace.

I guarantee the problem will be fixed by Friday, when I am able to upload a larger file (200 kb is about max with my current isp using dialup)

moving on

To answer Marshall Thomas' question
how does the Medimod differ from the UAI mod? I've yet to use any mods, and right now the only ones I'm interested in are the Medimod and the UAI mod.
Short answer:

First, UAI (Ultimate AI mod by GrandViZ), is a very solid AI mod that drastically improves diplomacy.

To an unrealistic degree IMO, I'll get into that later.

Basically, with Medimod they look at the 'big picture' then decide what to do instead of small 'clips' (independent decisions that all other mods and vanilla uses)

More importantly UAI, and most any other AI mod relies heavily on giving AI factions more money. When combined with the monetary boost they already get at harder difficulty levels, this effectively renders any non-battlefield strategy useless.

Things such as;
Blockading ports
Besieging settlements you donít have the forces to take
Causing Devastation
Making a general nuisance of yourself where their income is concerned
Still work with Medimod, even on Hard. Its useless with UAI, and even more so with other mods I've seen.

Long Answer:

Take a look at this
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; MONEY SCRIPT ;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

monitor_event FactionTurnStart not FactionIsLocal
and FactionType england
and Treasury < 6000
console_command add_money england, 6000
end_monitor
What this says is, if England is not a human faction and they currently have less then 6000 in their treasury they get 6000. This is done every turn for all AI factions, the amount ranging from 4000 to 12000.
So? Well it makes non-battlefield strategy such as blockading ports, besieging with inferior forces and causing destruction useless.
There's also this;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; GROWTH BALANCE SCRIPT ;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

monitor_event SettlementTurnStart FactionIsLocal
and I_TurnNumber > 0
and SettlementType city
and SettlementBuildingExists = wooden_pallisade
console_command add_money -50
end_monitor
This simply makes the human player only, pay upkeep for settlements. Particulary this one makes the human pay 50 every turn for a small town. As the setlment size increases so dose the amount up to 800.
While I have nothing against the idea of paying upkeep for buildings, I DONT like the unbalance it causes between human and AI factions, and implimenting this to include the AI would have a very detrimental effect on it's capabilities.

Finally the big one descr_campaign_ai_db, I was wrong, the newest version of UAI dose not use the 90% chance, it's worse...
<decision_entry>
<min_entry stance="Allied"/>
<max_entrystance="Allied" num_turns_allied="20"/>
<faction_attitudecan_force_invade="false"/>
</decision_entry>
What's this mean? If your allied and have been for 20 turns they cant attack. 20 turns is quite a long time IMO and a creative player can simply cancel an alliance then ally with them again to reset the counter. It might cost a bit, but they will not attack period.
<decision_entry>
<min_entrystance="Neutral" has_alliance_against="true" military_balance="0.7" is_neighbour="true"/>
<max_entry stance="Neutral"/>
<faction_attitudeinvade="invade_immediate" invade_priority="1000"/>
</decision_entry>
This says that if they have an alliance, and you are not it, and they are almost as strong as you they attack 1000 priority. (thatís tied for the highest)
I have to assume that they made the same mistake I did in that 'alliance against' means you have diplomatically agreed to attack a faction. Study of the LTGD log quickly shows that is not the case, that is only covered in this line
invade_priority_assistance_offset int="200"
which simply increases attack priority by 200 if such an agreement was made. 'alliance against=true' quite simply means they have allies and the target of this decision is not allied with any of them.
Regardless, this in and of it's self is not so bad, however, all invade decisions following require 'num_enemies=0' or if they are already at war with anyone elts they will not attack anyone they are not at war with.
Skipping ahead to keep this short (lol);
<decision_entry>

<faction_attitudecan_force_invade="false"/>
</decision_entry>
this means if none of the previous, relatively strict, 77 entries (of which maybe 50 of them actually say to attack) is not true, do not attack

Ok, I'm done bashing UAI, and I repeat it is a good and very solid (albeit rigid) mod.

In my opinion it is pretty much impossible to make a truly flexible and effective AI by limiting it in such a manner. Seriously how well can 50 situations cover all possible considerations within this game?

So I decided to start experimenting with a 'prioritized AI format' I was so impressed by it's capability I want to work on it more, to do so effectively I need others to play it, so I made Medimod.
Medimod says "attack everyone" then goes through a list of possible considerations adding and subtracting from the attack priority until it reaches the end. When it has calculated the attack priorities for each faction, it will then say "Ok, now who do I want to attack the most?" and acts upon it. If multiple priorities are relatively close they will attempt to act on all of them (i.e. fighting a muli-front war, something UAI doesnít even consider). The more powerful the faction is (more resources) the more spread the priorities it will act upon can be.
This allows attacking multiple settlements of the same faction, attacking beyond it's own borders, more actively defending it's own lands (would work infinitely better if 'defend priority' worked)...Basically, with Medimod they look at the 'big picture' then decide what to do instead of small 'clips' (independent decisions that all other mods and vanilla uses)

[This message has been edited by CavalryCmdr (edited 06-18-2007 @ 02:51 AM).]

SwampRat
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 18 June 2007 03:15 EDT (US)     24 / 187       
Don't worry about things not being perfect off the bat, if they were then either you'd be very good/luck/not releasing it for another year or two.

The small armies seiging me hasn't happened often, it was just on the few turns before I gave you my feedback so I remembered it. Milan had turned Milan into a castle (unless it starts as one) which I took after they'd been destroyed (they attacked with 3 family members and a decent army against my Florence which I'd just stolen when they left it with a small garrison (I think only being a family member) - one very close fight later and they'd run out of family) France have given up being my ally to attack me, and may have won if i'd autoresolved rather than playing. But now there seems to be a pile of small French armies sitting around, one siege on a half full castle was carried out by 3 units of dismounted feudal knights, there are a couple of armies of 'family member plus a couple of units' sat between Milan and Genoa.

I don't think I've been very aggressive, its taken about 80 turns for venice to take italy and a few bits off of the Byzantines. I honoured all of my alliances (none left now as Germany ditched me to become neutral, they could have been miffed by me wandering over their land too much, also as I think France was a mutual ally).

Will I need to restart the whole lot to take advantage of the mini patch?

The Greeks had a full stack sat on my Rhodes for ages, I'm assuming this is part of the indecisive problem as it did attack a few times, but often it just stayed still for a while. Same with Egyptian and Moorish forces on Iraklion. Does the greek anger have anything to do with preset hatred or just as I looked a juicy target?

Goodluck with getting a good ai going, its not looking too bad so far. It doesnt feel majorly different from 1.2 which in my mind is a good thing as there wasnt much wrong. I've not been shocked by anything the ai has done, and the indecisive bit wasnt as bad as the one turn blockades we had back in 1.1 - they generally had a reason to be attacking me. I think they had/have the power to push me back as I'm fighting in east(them) and west(france, but not being offensive) and they have some decent sized armies about (at least two or three nearly full stacks) but they dont seem to often want to hugely outnumber me and settle for outnumbering me a bit in a few places. Thats probably tactically sound as it stops me focusing my troops too, i suppose.

Hope that helps
CavalryCmdr
Legionary
posted 18 June 2007 04:22 EDT (US)     25 / 187       
Ok, I've updated the patch again, and now I'm almost certain the indecisive problem is fixed.
Will I need to restart the whole lot to take advantage of the mini patch?
I'm not sure, I'll test and let you know tomorrow. I know a saved game will run, I'm just not sure if it parses the file on load or start of the game.
The Greeks had a full stack sat on my Rhodes for ages, I'm assuming this is part of the indecisive problem as it did attack a few times, but often it just stayed still for a while. Same with Egyptian and Moorish forces on Iraklion. Does the greek anger have anything to do with preset hatred or just as I looked a juicy target?
That is a problem with the hard coded part of the AI involving naval invasions. The reason you've not seen it often is because now all factions do naval invasions where before only a few have. It's the same thing that caused Sicily to stall if the Moors took Tunis before them. Basically they wanted to attack that settlement when they set out, but not when they got there. There they will stay until another target exceeds the initial rating for that naval invasion target, or they decide they do want to attack you after all. Them attacking a few times and then backing off to stand around like a fool is part of the indecisive problem. Win or loose once they attack they should become un-stuck, but they actually have to fight first.
but they donít seem to often want to hugely outnumber me and settle for outnumbering me a bit in a few places.
I may have to fine-tune the 'invade_opportunistic' orders I've just recently given them. With that the AI decides when and where to attack, they may consider only outnumbering you a little to be an opportunity. As you say, it is probably tactically sound, but is not what I wanted them to do, human players are superior on the battlefield, they should not attack unless they seriously outnumber you, or are planning multiple invasions against you, one of witch should seriously outnumber you. With any luck, fixing that will also fix the problem with France only attacking you with it's small army.
The AI's tendency to combine smaller armies en-rout may also be some of the problem if these armies were relatively close together.
Milan had turned Milan into a castle (unless it starts as one)
I wish... No, the AI never converts settlements, I changed Milan into a castle in the descr_strat. Although Italian militia units are good, I found that having Milan as a castle gives them the 'oomph' they need to stand up against the HRE and France if early expansion dose not go well. It also allows them a chance of taking Bern, militia troops just cant pull that off before either of the two 'superpowers' do.

Thanks for the info, I will certainly work on fixing that. The whole situation you described with France was what I was trying to avoid with 'invade_opportunistic' rather then immediate, If the AI still dose that (even only occasionally) and generally accepts worse then very good odds for battle, it's not worth it.

;edit;
According to the log, the files are cached on aplication start-up so they should be 100% save game compatible.

[This message has been edited by CavalryCmdr (edited 06-18-2007 @ 03:50 PM).]

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