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Total War Heaven » Forums » Rome: Total War Discussion » All archer armies. A bad thing?
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Topic Subject:All archer armies. A bad thing?
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Ferret
Legionary
(id: The_Ferret)
posted 05 February 2005 14:56 EDT (US)         
Well, I don't think so, look at this, and look at the dead unit types, phalanxes, heavy infantry, light infantry, cavalry and even elephants. All using an all archer army. Anyone care to argue?


POSTER NUMBER ONE IN HOLY ROMAN PARTY XV
"Live forever, or die trying!"
TWH Baths Forumer of the Month - November 06
AuthorReplies:
Ferret
Legionary
(id: The_Ferret)
posted 05 February 2005 14:57 EDT (US)     1 / 41       
BTW- yes I know they had full exp- but so did the enemy, made it more fun seeing a professional army, mowing down another, relativly no close combat and most of the rest were FF

POSTER NUMBER ONE IN HOLY ROMAN PARTY XV
"Live forever, or die trying!"
TWH Baths Forumer of the Month - November 06
Ferret
Legionary
(id: The_Ferret)
posted 05 February 2005 15:16 EDT (US)     2 / 41       
Don't argue with the numbers people.

BTW- Both on V/H


POSTER NUMBER ONE IN HOLY ROMAN PARTY XV
"Live forever, or die trying!"
TWH Baths Forumer of the Month - November 06

[This message has been edited by The_Ferret (edited 02-05-2005 @ 03:18 PM).]

Tinfish
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 16:30 EDT (US)     3 / 41       

Ferret wrote: "...an all archer army. Anyone care to argue?"
----

Nope! I take you're point

Geddit?
:-)
Arrow.
Point?
:-(


Seriously tho. Thats a fearsome lookin army

NativeBoy Of USA
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 16:52 EDT (US)     4 / 41       
kinda takes away the whole point of this game, it is a STRATEGY game after all, not kill them before we can implament strategy.
ahenobarb
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 16:53 EDT (US)     5 / 41       
Try it against an all cavalry army though and see who wins, eventually the archers will turn tail and run. Then it's all over for them.
Konigsberg_Monarch
Legionary
(id: Billybob_100)
posted 05 February 2005 17:09 EDT (US)     6 / 41       
rofl awesome!!!


How do you use an army like that...

retreat?

Or act like elves and hold ground


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Ferret
Legionary
(id: The_Ferret)
posted 05 February 2005 17:14 EDT (US)     7 / 41       
Just arrange a battle line, and kill as many as you can while they advance.

When they engage, they always attack weak points, so always make some, the enemy will be tempted to attack this point.

Get two nearby regiments to surround the unit that took the bait, thus limiting FF and killing more efficiently.(has been tried all cav and it worked too )

Then when the enemy is running home to change their pants, arrange them back to a battle line to make it look nice like I did.

EDIT: when I said make a weak point I meant 1 unit thinner than the next, or a large gap between units.


POSTER NUMBER ONE IN HOLY ROMAN PARTY XV
"Live forever, or die trying!"
TWH Baths Forumer of the Month - November 06

[This message has been edited by The_Ferret (edited 02-05-2005 @ 05:15 PM).]

Rawhk
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 17:22 EDT (US)     8 / 41       
Nice numbers, but I agree with NativeBoy Of USA it takes away the strategy of the game... have you tested it agaisnt legions in testudo?
Ferret
Legionary
(id: The_Ferret)
posted 05 February 2005 18:08 EDT (US)     9 / 41       
Yes. Only a few went testudo, but once they broke formation to charge, the above strategy hacked them apart. I've tried it agains all but an opposing all archer army. The top picture is of a 'balanced army' and included elephants.

POSTER NUMBER ONE IN HOLY ROMAN PARTY XV
"Live forever, or die trying!"
TWH Baths Forumer of the Month - November 06
Themistocles472
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 18:10 EDT (US)     10 / 41       
I would venture to guess that testudo formations dont move quickly enough, nor do they come out of formation quickly enough. I'd still like to try/see cavalry vs all archers.
Ferret
Legionary
(id: The_Ferret)
posted 05 February 2005 18:17 EDT (US)     11 / 41       
As I said, it has been done, they have been owned, a bit of softening up, and a bit of luring to certain locations and an out flank of a volley of arrows, followed by Romans with swords who need to win to be able to take their heavy (but shiney *) metal helmet off. All archer armies own, you need to ask the archers not to skirmish though.

POSTER NUMBER ONE IN HOLY ROMAN PARTY XV
"Live forever, or die trying!"
TWH Baths Forumer of the Month - November 06
doitzelkaiseriii
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 18:20 EDT (US)     12 / 41       
Have you tried fighting all cataphracts with all archers? And have you tried it against a human person, or just the idiot AI?

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
Ferret
Legionary
(id: The_Ferret)
posted 05 February 2005 18:23 EDT (US)     13 / 41       
No havn't tried cataphracts.(should be fun )
And yes, the Human player was Own-ed.

POSTER NUMBER ONE IN HOLY ROMAN PARTY XV
"Live forever, or die trying!"
TWH Baths Forumer of the Month - November 06
lawler
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 18:27 EDT (US)     14 / 41       
the best is playing on custom battle as entirely Scythian Archers against what ever factions, balanced army or not... inside a camp.... massacre
Xorhas EL Malek
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 18:41 EDT (US)     15 / 41       
I have tested testudo against overwhelming arrows. 20 Legionary Cohorts against 20 Pharaoh's Bowmen. The legionaries won a very decisive victory, forgot the exact numbers, though.

[This message has been edited by Xorhas EL Malek (edited 02-05-2005 @ 06:42 PM).]

NativeBoy Of USA
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 18:54 EDT (US)     16 / 41       
you comanded the legion so thats why, comp isnt as good.


I did archers vs archer, and i won, they dont even shoot at you they just run at you then like 3 shoot and the rest melee

uncertaindrummer
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 19:05 EDT (US)     17 / 41       
I'd lvoe to see some Pratorian cavalry let loose on that army. Also, giant flaming rocks might do interesting stuff as well...

"Your wisdom is surpassed only by your ignorance"
Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)
posted 05 February 2005 19:15 EDT (US)     18 / 41       
This army actually very well could have worked, but the patch would make it impossible. Archers don't even do as much damage as they used to against Phalanx units. Plus the testudo formation's doesn't sap so much of the men's energy anymore, and archers can no longer hold their own at all in combat.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin
Ferret
Legionary
(id: The_Ferret)
posted 05 February 2005 19:52 EDT (US)     19 / 41       
Ace this was after the patch. But just look how they did against an all elephant army


RAIN OF FIRE!


POSTER NUMBER ONE IN HOLY ROMAN PARTY XV
"Live forever, or die trying!"
TWH Baths Forumer of the Month - November 06
Rawhk
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 20:02 EDT (US)     20 / 41       
Testudo formation owns archers, just let em waste their ammo on you and then get out of Testudo and charge, but, like people said before, the AI is dumb, so it won't think like this.
Personally I dont like archers and just use them as arrow-fodder. I only found archers good vs phalanx, but they are easily out-manouvered. So unless someone gives me a nice and based argument about how good they are (plz do not come with data based on battles vs AI),I dont see any reason that they would be good as an army.
Themistocles472
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 20:09 EDT (US)     21 / 41       
What would make anybody think all elephants could beat all archer?? That's what fire is for...........
Elrond89
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 20:17 EDT (US)     22 / 41       
Of course if a greek player made a solid wall of advanced phlanxes your arrows would be wasted.

Crusade! Our brothers in the East need out swords to subdue the Infidel! The Saracen defiles the Sepulchre and is at the gates of the Roman emperor!. Ride! Ride ye holy soldiers to Jerusalem! Byzantium calls for aid...Christ and the Virgin weep at the blood of martyrs spilled on holy pilgrimages! Crusade! -Medieval 2: Total War
Lord_Morningstar
Legionary
posted 05 February 2005 22:19 EDT (US)     23 / 41       
If all-archer armies can take down all-cav armies I think we have a problem. Was this pre- or post- patch 1.2?

By the way, does the computer every use Testudo? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it do so.

Roman General
Guest
posted 05 February 2005 23:00 EDT (US)     24 / 41       
An all archer army would beat an all cav army head on, but who starts the battle head on? Against a decent human player he will out flank you and crush you.

Also, look at the number of men deployed in your first screen shot. Almost 1,000 men less! No wonder you beat em! Also, all your archers had the best weapons, armor, and experience, every single one of them.


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[This message has been edited by Roman General (edited 02-05-2005 @ 11:03 PM).]

Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)
posted 05 February 2005 23:02 EDT (US)     25 / 41       
Ferret, you shouldn't lose to an all elephant army with an all archer army. Flaming ammo, fire rate was reduced increased, so archers shoot even faster now using flaming ammo, and with 20 units of fully upgraded archers on Huge level settings, an eigth of your army shooting flaming arrows should be enough to scare away a unit of elephants on the first shot.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin
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