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Topic Subject:Best of the best
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samari_tycoon
Legionary
posted 13 October 2005 23:01 EDT (US)         
I was thinking that it would be handy to have a list of the best units, building and traits on hand for those who want to experiance the best. Uh yah... SO I think we should organize it into three root groups, such as buildings, units, and traits.
Then we can add sub-groups, Like ranged, shock infantry,spear infantry, mounted.
Then we could add sub-sub-groups. Like slinger, skirmisher, archer, and mounted archer. I think this could be a great help in figuring out what faction you would want to try.

Base:
_____Units:
___________hvy. inf:
_____________________raw attack: Chosen Axemen (Germania)
_____________________javelin thrower: Urban Cohort (Rome)
_____________________morale boster: Legionary First Cohort (Rome)
_____________________over all: Urban Cohort (Rome)
_____________________best value for money: Urban Cohort (Rome)
___________Lgt. inf:
____________________raw attack: Beserker (Germania)
____________________javelin thrower: Cilician Pirates (Mercenary)
____________________morale boster: Screeching Women (Germania)
____________________over all: Scutarii (Spain)
_____________________best value for money: Scutarii (Spain)
___________Spear inf:
_____________________Hoplite: Spartan Hoplites (The Greek Cities)
_____________________Phlangite: Silver Shield Pikemen (The Seleucid Empire)
_____________________Non-phalanx Spearmen: Triarii (Rome)
_____________________over all: Spartan Hoplites (The Greek Cities)
_____________________best value for money: Phalanax Pikeman (Pontus)
___________Ships:
________________disaster resistance (I.E storms):Large Boats (Barbarian)
________________pure fighting capibility: Decere (The House of Scipii)
________________over all: Decere (The House of Scipii)
_____________________best value for money: Biremes (Civilized Nations)
___________Archer:
__________________Foot archer: Forester Warband (Gaul)
__________________Skirmisher: Head Hurlers (Britannia)
__________________Slinger: Balearic Slingers (Mercenary)
__________________Mounted:
__________________________chariot: Chariot Archers (Egypt)
__________________________horse: Chataphract Archers (Armenia)
__________________________skirmisher: Pontic Heavy Cavalry (Pontus)
__________________________elephant: Armoured Elephants (Carthage, The Seleucid Empire)
_____________________best value for money: Pharaoh's Bowmen (Egypt)
___________Mounted:
___________________Horse (anti-infantry): Cataphracts (Armenia, Parthia, The Seleucid Empire)
___________________Horse (anti-cavalry): Head Hunting Maidens (Scythia)
___________________Elephant: Armoured Elephants (Carthage, The Seleucid Empire)
___________________Camel: Cataphrat Camels (Parthia)
_____________________best value for money: Desert Cavalry (Egypt)
_____Buildings
______________economical:
_________________________farm:
_________________________Religious:
__________________________________Best experiance:
__________________________________Best agent training:
__________________________________Best happiness:
__________________________________Best general training:
_________________________Acadamy:
_________________________trade enducing:
I chose Yakamirs sugestion primaraly because I'm lazy


Only the good guys win...
Not because they nice but because they get to write it down in the books.

In other news check out this my first sig add...
Its to good old uh, halo the conquerers forums, if you like halo, and you like AoK then go on down!!

[This message has been edited by samari_tycoon (edited 10-19-2005 @ 08:27 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Themistocles472
Legionary
posted 14 October 2005 14:03 EDT (US)     1 / 34       
Things like this have been discussed before. I am not sure what you are going for with those categories.

The best heavy (and best overall) infantry unit is the Urban Cohort, followed closely by Spartans. Honorable mention to Bull Warriors (Spain) and Praetorian Cohorts.

The best light infantry are probably spain's scutarii.

The best "shock" troops I know of are germania's. Chosen axemen, berserkers, etc.

The best archers are Gallic Foresters. Pharaoh's bowmen are rather good as well, and are better armoured than foresters. Other elite archers include cretens, archer auxilia, and chosen archers. Only the foresters, chosens and pharoah's bowmen can be said to have acceptable melee ability though.

The good slingers are rhoadians and balearic. (sp?)

*The best true skirmishers, AFAIK, are Illyrians. If Britannian head hurlers best fit into this category, they might be best.

The larger and more expensive a ship is, the better it is. Simple as that. Decere > corvus quinquireme > quinquireme > Trireme > bireme > large boats > boats

The best 'spear infantry' (phalanx) are Spartans.

The best cavalry is cataphracts. Best cav archer is cataphract archers.

The best anti cavalry cavalry is cataphracts (lol) or cataphract camels. Desert cavalry aren't the best, but they are cheap, come in large unit sizes, have an AP atack, and do the best for the money vs the armoured cavalry units. WHY THE HELL did they make them like that? geez. (with 1.3 their unit size is cut to normal)


*Edited

[This message has been edited by Themistocles472 (edited 10-14-2005 @ 05:10 PM).]

Poeni
Legionary
posted 14 October 2005 16:21 EDT (US)     2 / 34       
I would count Head Hurlers as Skirmisher, so they are the best Skirmisher .
samari_tycoon
Legionary
posted 14 October 2005 19:33 EDT (US)     3 / 34       
I count them as slingers as they use a sling

Only the good guys win...
Not because they nice but because they get to write it down in the books.

In other news check out this my first sig add...
Its to good old uh, halo the conquerers forums, if you like halo, and you like AoK then go on down!!

Themistocles472
Legionary
posted 15 October 2005 00:48 EDT (US)     4 / 34       
How do you fit a human had into a sling?
samari_tycoon
Legionary
posted 15 October 2005 18:14 EDT (US)     5 / 34       
a sling is just a strip of a material you grab both ends of material spin it over your head and time it so you release one end and the projectileslips out. In fact the midevil treduchaet sp? was in fact just a catapult with a sling atached. The head hurlers would just need a modifyed sling to incorate the size of the head.

Only the good guys win...
Not because they nice but because they get to write it down in the books.

In other news check out this my first sig add...
Its to good old uh, halo the conquerers forums, if you like halo, and you like AoK then go on down!!

[This message has been edited by samari_tycoon (edited 10-15-2005 @ 06:15 PM).]

kostresa
Legionary
posted 15 October 2005 19:24 EDT (US)     6 / 34       
I think the best of slingers don't even need to release any string. They just somehow shift it just right and it flies beautifully.


I guess they did the Head hurler animation wrong eh?

samari_tycoon
Legionary
posted 15 October 2005 20:27 EDT (US)     7 / 34       
huh? *checks... Oh uh well this doesn't make sence... How can they hold a slimy lime covered head without a sling or something. Wouldn't it burn intensly

Only the good guys win...
Not because they nice but because they get to write it down in the books.

In other news check out this my first sig add...
Its to good old uh, halo the conquerers forums, if you like halo, and you like AoK then go on down!!

Themistocles472
Legionary
posted 15 October 2005 23:01 EDT (US)     8 / 34       
That's a good question tycoon. NO matter what they do with them, they have to handle them. Obviously if they throw them, and if they use slings they have to put them into the sling...
Ichbinian
Legionary
posted 16 October 2005 00:13 EDT (US)     9 / 34       
But the thing is, they don't use a sling anyway. But in theory, they should. And the heads aren't burning either. The most absurd thing about HH's is that they have a 17 AP attack. With heads.

Ichbinian
Oldie from RTWH!
Themistocles472
Legionary
posted 16 October 2005 00:15 EDT (US)     10 / 34       
Yes, it is absurd. Lime or not, it's not going to pierce armour. I say giving them at attack of 17 is plenty.

[This message has been edited by Themistocles472 (edited 10-16-2005 @ 00:15 AM).]

yakcamkir
Seraph Emeritus
posted 16 October 2005 05:12 EDT (US)     11 / 34       
Do I have to tell everyone this? Lime causes caustic burns. It is not a true armour piercing weapon, but it is far more effective against armour than against anythin unarmoured. This is because having clothing of any sort over caustic burns actually irritates them more, causing further damage and incapacitation. It should actually discount all armour and have an attack bonus against armoured units, the only problem being that it would make them too overpowered.

If you want to see caustic burns, click here. WARNING - RATHER NASTY LOKING INJURIES DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK IF YOU ARE EASILY DISGUSTED BY DISFIGURING INJURIES.

If you want my opinion on the best units, then I'll give it to you.

Base:
_____Units:
___________hvy. inf:
_____________________raw attack: Chosen Axemen (Germania)
_____________________javelin thrower: Urban Cohort (Rome)
_____________________morale boster: Legionary First Cohort (Rome)
_____________________over all: Urban Cohort (Rome)
_____________________best value for money: Urban Cohort (Rome)
___________Lgt. inf:
____________________raw attack: Beserker (Germania)
____________________javelin thrower: Cilician Pirates (Mercenary)
____________________morale boster: Screeching Women (Germania)
____________________over all: Scutarii (Spain)
_____________________best value for money: Scutarii (Spain)
___________Spear inf:
_____________________Hoplite: Spartan Hoplites (The Greek Cities)
_____________________Phlangite: Silver Shield Pikemen (The Seleucid Empire)
_____________________Non-phalanx Spearmen: Triarii (Rome)
_____________________over all: Spartan Hoplites (The Greek Cities)
_____________________best value for money: Pharaoh's Guards (Egypt)
___________Ships:
________________disaster resistance (I.E storms):Large Boats (Barbarian)
________________pure fighting capibility: Decere (The House of Scipii)
________________over all: Decere (The House of Scipii)
_____________________best value for money: Biremes (Civilised Nations)
___________Archer:
__________________Foot archer: Forester Warband (Gaul)
__________________Skirmisher: Head Hurlers (Britannia)
__________________Slinger: Balearic Slingers (Mercenary)
__________________Mounted:
__________________________chariot: Chariot Archers (Egypt)
__________________________horse: Chataphract Archers (Armenia)
__________________________skirmisher: Pontic Heavy Cavalry (Pontus)
__________________________elephant: Armoured Elephants (Carthage, The Seleucid Empire)
_____________________best value for money: Pharaoh's Bowmen (Egypt)
___________Mounted:
___________________Horse (anti-infantry): Cataphracts (Armenia, Parthia, The Seleucid Empire)
___________________Horse (anti-cavalry): Head Hunting Maidens (Scythia)
___________________Elephant: Armoured Elephants (Carthage, The Seleucid Empire)
___________________Camel: Cataphrat Camels (Parthia)
_____________________best value for money: Desert Cavalry (Egypt)


Rome: Total War Heaven | Medieval II: Total War Heaven | Empire: Total War Heaven
"Do not stand behind Satan in the Post Office queue because the devil takes many forms."
"Your front-page picture of Kate Winslet with a plunging neckline being up for two golden globes was most appropriate."

Unpublished letters to the Daily Telegraph
Themistocles472
Legionary
posted 16 October 2005 13:43 EDT (US)     12 / 34       
There is something wrong if Triarii can win a category. They SUCK. I mean, they are worthless and WAY overpriced. On very hard I once had a unit of ROUND SHIELD cavalry defeat my unit of town watch AND my unit of triarii in a straight up melee. Round shields charge and route town watch, then engage the triarii who were behind the town watch in melee. The round shields absolutely destroyed the trirarii it wasn't even a contest.

I have not used a single unit of triarii since.

Mike the Mighty
Legionary
posted 16 October 2005 13:49 EDT (US)     13 / 34       
dont mean to sound stupid, but what is the definition of "shock troops", are they different from assault troops, are they different from ordinary heavy infantry?
Themistocles472
Legionary
posted 16 October 2005 15:45 EDT (US)     14 / 34       
Okay, so having clothing over the burns makes them bad. How do the burns get their in the first place? In battle the clothing/armour is covering the skin...so how do they get burned?

Shock troops are troops that kill quickly, probably scare the enemy, but aren't used to hold a line. You can use berserkers, chosen axemen and the like to flank, or cut a hole in an enemy line, but you probably don't want to make your main line out of them.

samari_tycoon
Legionary
posted 17 October 2005 21:09 EDT (US)     15 / 34       
Uh which is the chemical burn. And how does lime cause burns? Whats the active engrediant?

Only the good guys win...
Not because they nice but because they get to write it down in the books.

In other news check out this my first sig add...
Its to good old uh, halo the conquerers forums, if you like halo, and you like AoK then go on down!!

Aeneas2
Legionary
posted 17 October 2005 21:50 EDT (US)     16 / 34       

Quote:

best value for money: Pharaoh's Guards (Egypt)

I would have to disagree with you on that point. I am not postitive but I belive Pharoh's Guards cost 690 denarii, Carthage's Sacred Band Infantry cost 710 denarii and they are better. They have a better defense and from the many times I have used them they seem to have better morale too.

And just to make sure everyone has it straight, the best infantry units(not taking cost into cosideration) are as follows: 1st Spartan Hoplites, followed by Urban Cohorts, then Sacred Band Infantry. If you wish to test it, be sure to take the guard mode off for the phalanxes as it makes them more effective.


Aeneas l BFME2 Heaven l WiC Heaven
"The most important thing is to remember to have fun! After all, what else could be the point of nuking your friends?" - Cheesewiz

[This message has been edited by Aeneas2 (edited 10-17-2005 @ 09:57 PM).]

Themistocles472
Legionary
posted 17 October 2005 22:06 EDT (US)     17 / 34       
Somebody ran extensive tests to determine the bets for the money awhile ago. I think it was actually one of Pontus' units that won that...
yakcamkir
Seraph Emeritus
posted 18 October 2005 10:17 EDT (US)     18 / 34       
dad_savage ran testing where upgrdes were used to make all units equal cost and Pontic Phalanx Pikemen won. That sort of testing is head to head though, so it favours Phlangites over everything else. Best value for money depends on several things including the following:
- Your playing style.
- How much money you have.
- Experience or upgrades.
- Retraining (in campaign only).

Quote:

Uh which is the chemical burn. And how does lime cause burns? Whats the active engrediant?


The active ingredient is quicklime (Calcium Oxide). It is highly corrosive and also reacts with water to produce Slaked Lime (Calcium Hydroxide), which is less corrosive, but still pretty nasty. The reaction also gets immensely hot. As Quicklime is a powder, it will get everywhere in your armour.

Rome: Total War Heaven | Medieval II: Total War Heaven | Empire: Total War Heaven
"Do not stand behind Satan in the Post Office queue because the devil takes many forms."
"Your front-page picture of Kate Winslet with a plunging neckline being up for two golden globes was most appropriate."

Unpublished letters to the Daily Telegraph
kostresa
Legionary
posted 19 October 2005 20:22 EDT (US)     19 / 34       
Aeneas2 is right with the sparties.

Running my test:
On full gold, the spartans ate the urbans alive with phalanx.

and with guard mode off:
With no spears, and 1 volley of pillas thrown at them, the spartans still won in hand to hand. It was close, but they won.

Aeneas2
Legionary
posted 19 October 2005 22:29 EDT (US)     20 / 34       
I meant with phalanx still on but guard mode off.

Aeneas l BFME2 Heaven l WiC Heaven
"The most important thing is to remember to have fun! After all, what else could be the point of nuking your friends?" - Cheesewiz
kostresa
Legionary
posted 20 October 2005 01:08 EDT (US)     21 / 34       
Heh, well, in my single test (single isn't much, i know) the spartans won without phalanx. Phalanx formation just makes it all the better.
Thanatos
Legionary
(id: deathmaster666)
posted 20 October 2005 20:46 EDT (US)     22 / 34       

Quote:

Uh which is the chemical burn. And how does lime cause burns? Whats the active engrediant?

Calcium Hydroxide, It is a strong alkali.

Help me to tally the forums belief patterns, vote in my poll

Tally so far:-
Agnostics:18
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samari_tycoon
Legionary
posted 20 October 2005 22:51 EDT (US)     23 / 34       
hmm okay any one know what best farm is?

Only the good guys win...
Not because they nice but because they get to write it down in the books.

In other news check out this my first sig add...
Its to good old uh, halo the conquerers forums, if you like halo, and you like AoK then go on down!!

GMRage
Legionary
posted 21 October 2005 00:40 EDT (US)     24 / 34       

Quote:

Quote:
----------------------------------------------------
Uh which is the chemical burn. And how does lime cause burns? Whats the active engrediant?
----------------------------------------------------
Calcium Hydroxide, It is a strong alkali.

To be more accurate, lime 'burns' result when the calcium hydroxide reacts with sub-cutaneous fat in your body. It dissolves the fat & destroys your skin. (this is how soap is made incidently - by dissolving fat/oil in a caustic solution.)

Sodium Hydroxide (Caustic soda or sometimes just called Caustic. - Drano is mostly Caustic soda) is even more reactive. It is used in minerals processing & requires extensive safety precautions when handling it. It burns the skin & gets absorbed deeper & deeper into the body. Merely washing it off the surface doesn't help - you've got to keep washing the affected area for at least an hour.

Lime is not quite as reactive as this, but it's in the same family & I for one would not like to be subjected to a head-hurler caustic-chemical assault.

GM


Stupid questions & their appropriate responses from an Australian tourism web site:

Q: Which direction is North in Australia? (USA)
A: Face south and then turn 180 degrees. Contact us when you get here and we'll send the rest of the directions.

MEGAS_ALEXANDROS
Legionary
posted 21 October 2005 07:09 EDT (US)     25 / 34       
Units i have in high regard are

anti-inf cav. : Companions ( very very powerfull charge, faster than Cataphractes )
value for money: Phangittes (they hold the lines very well)

Macedonian Greek and Seleucid Empire

Phallanx inf : Argyraspides (silvershield)

Seleucid Empire

I like them more than Spartans cause of the 6m sarissa, it takes longer for the enemy to get close.

[This message has been edited by MEGAS_ALEXANDROS (edited 10-21-2005 @ 07:10 AM).]

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