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Downloads Home » Battle Videos » MacSeige[IMMORTALS] defeats Friesian

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MacSeige[IMMORTALS] defeats Friesian

Author File Description
File Details
Game Version: Barbarian Invasion
Number of Players: 2
Player 1's Name: MacSeige[IMMORTALS]
Player 2's Name: Friesian
# of Denarii: 10k
The download consists of multiple games. The main game is the one between McSeige and me. The others are the forum party games of the week before and the ladder match Antigonus liked to see.

Being very late at the Forum party (had a bridge tourney all day long) I decided to play in the friendly lobby and saw that McSeige was hosting a game. Being a very nice chap and a very good player I went for his game. Somehow the games I play against members of the IMMORTAL clan always take a very long time. This game almost reaches the length of 600.000 on the timer, which is about 10 times longer, then most of my games. For those interested in watching I advice to go for triple speed till about 455.000 and watch the unfolding action from there.

McSeige has a WRE army consisting of 10 archers, 8 plumbs and 1 first cohort. This kind of army is primarily a defensive one, explaining the length of the game. Attacking an army like this will kill you very fast before you can even reach it. My Berber army consisted of 9 Hillman units, 5 Moorish raiders, 5 desert archers and one general.
I have played McSeige twice now and I still don’t understand why he doesn’t use his very big archer advantage in those games. He could easily outgun me with those 10 archer units; being said that, he won twice over me so he is doing the right thing somehow. He waits for me to attack.

I first wait too to see what McSeige his aim is. McSeige tries to lure my archers into action. After some skirmishes he sends some troops on a kamikaze mission getting killed after wandering to far from the main army.
Next I go for the initiative and split my army. Most players can’t handle a two-sided flanking manoeuvre. McSeige reacts by retreating to an elevated corner (Scottish Highland map). Corners or a part of the game we play and sometimes I use a red line myself to get some advantage (never a corner though). McSeige is a great guy so I don’t hold it against him going for the corner.

In the middle game three of my cavalry units are running for home twice; I can get them back just in time. Really strange, looked very much like the game where Antigonus his infantry left the game prematurely. The chat probably triggers this strange phenomena (McSeige said that the backspace was maybe causing the run).

We manoeuvre a bit more and wait.

Seeing an opportunity I again move from two sides. I plan a two sided attack trying to sweep my cavalry trough the massed archers and attack the opposite side (the one closest to the big rock) of heavy infantry units while attacking frontally with my right wing army. My left wing was there for some distraction and possible staling of McSeige his right wing. McSeige moved his general to far away from those left wing units so the chance of breaking this wing fast seemed feasible. Berbers don’t follow orders like well trained Roman units, my cavalry attacks some units first I didn’t intent them to do but I manage to route McSeige his left flank completely, leaving him only with one archer unit and four heavy infantry units. At this decisive moment I should have retreated all my troops to recuperate or handled my infantry with a bit more skill (going with the four units on my left flank for the back of the first cohort). Luckily for McSeige I didn’t do this and went for a big infantry brawl. We both thought the battle was over in my favour but Fortuna had decided different. Should have done some more offering to her before the battle.

McSeige stopped attacking my routing troops but my poor general (he is now a new occupation as eunuch after a total castration) could not rally enough troops for a decent final stand.

I truly congratulate McSeige for his second successive win over me. I hope to play him or one of his fellow clan members again soon.

AuthorComments & Reviews   ( All | Comments Only | Reviews Only )
Antigonus Damn Friesian,

Thats a huge file, lol. I will review it tomorrow. Thanks a bunch for this file, I would love to see those games finally. I will post a review sometime tomorrow.

Antigonus Ok,

I watched the first big battle against Siege. I will try to be as unbiased as I can here.

First of all, I must say from the bottom of my heart that your army was not suitable at fighting the Romans. You were severely outnumbered in missile department and that alone limited your options.

You said that McSiege's army is defensive in nature - I agree. But so was yours. Actually more so than Siege's. Your 5 units of cavalrys plus chieftain, are not nearly enough to offset even the missile odds. His archers could have eaasily won archer duel if they tried - as you also pointed out in your own description. And then he could have safely advanced the main infantry formation, keeping archers on your weak cavalry. Your spearmen would have routed fast I believe.

The battle begins with Siege advancing forward and halting within two bowshots away from your line. Your position is clearly superior, but thats only due to the fact that Siege is willing to combat, while you are unwilling to leave your hill. Long pause begins. I believe that Siege should have just marched right to high ground and then swung left to face you. If you were to mirror him then at least when you would have fought the elevation advantage that you had would not have been so great for him to see his clear superiority.

Then siege sends out archers to try to entice you to attack, you carefully pursue stopping just short of falling into his trap. You also make a very daring attempt with your general, on your right flank, to take out some of his archers. Hoping that he is somewhat distracted you try to harass his archers on your left too. To some degree it worked, I guess, because had you played against me in such way your general coming so close to such a heavy concentration of arhers would have been shoot in seconds. Siege reacted slower and not fast enough to end the game right there - he had an excuse as he was trying to micro his right flank archer unit, which was under threat of attack. Your general escaped - a true testament to your skill of attempting a daring move and evading consequences.

Next came a horrifying move - Siege dispatched two infantry and two missile units on his right flank forward and right a bit. That was a suicide mission that surprised me. Siege is a known kamikazi, but he always gains something back for his units. I was trying to scan the whole map to see if something else was moving somewhere that was missed by me. Nothing. His whole army stood and watched as these four units marched all the way forward and got massacred. I swear watching this almost made me pick up the phone and call him and ask him - what the hell was that about? However, the answer was right there a couple mins after when you began to move. Now I knew exaclty why he sacrificed his units.

He didn't have to do that, in my opinion. And when he did he certainly overdid it. I am positive that he sacrificed his units to give you a sense of superiority and make you vacate your strong position - which is exaclty what you did. He then proceeded to retreat back to his strong position as you followed. That two winged attack was trully amazing up until you tested your fate again, by rushing your general at archers as siege was trying to form up. This time he made you pay dearly for that as you lost almost all of your general's horsemen to that daring/unnecessary move. That was your greatest blunder in that game.

The battle itself took place with advantage going to Siege - this was necessary for him to have as he needed something to compensate for his sacrificial units. The outcome of melee with your units, as I mentioned earlier was never in doubt - Berber infantry can't fight Romans, PERIOD. The Forum Party game posted by Ichibian also proves that same point as tired Romans under Mace are able to rout Jude's fresh hordes of Berbers.

You are right when you said that you should have regrouped. You should have. Even though your two pronged thrust was beautiful, i believe it was unnecessary. You should have capitalized on your advantages. A way to do that would have been to sac at least one unit of your men by advancing close to his archers. letting Siege shoot them and drain both archers and plumbs of their missile power. So you needed to be somewhere in the middle between agressive/defensive. You chose the first, and unltimately lost. His archers really did the number on you as well.

Overall, you both played a good game. I know you might have been down on time too as this game is long even by our standards, but I guess its the nature of this game as both of you had really defensive armies, that made it so.

In conclusion, I would advise you against Berbers in no rules, Friesian. Your selection of units in particular was inferior to Siege's selection even though you did have some cavalry. Cavalry is only good when your infantry is at least good enough to hold enemy in place for a while. Sassanids, though have a somewhat superior cavalry to Romans, fail miserably to match against them in infantry battles. I guess what I am saying is that your cavlary would have been useless anyways, as you had no reliable infantry to meet the Romans and hold them in place long enough for your cavalry to actually deliver its fullest potential.

Anyways, at least these are my opinions about the game. I will be watching the Clem fight next. Stay tuned.
Antigonus Ok,

Just watched the Clem vs Friesian game. I must say I didn't expect it to be won by Friesian at all, after watching the skirmish. I think I can clearly say that despite making many consistent mistakes in this game, clem still had a good opportunity to win it. The following are mistakes that I found to be major for Clem:

1. You kept moving your HA and Cavlary too much for no apparent reason. had you left the cavlary on the flanks, they could have added some power ro your foot archers and also prevented any balys move. Friesian would have failed to use them. The fact that you kept running for them, giving him constant opportunity to shoot at your HA was a big blunder.

2. Your heavy cavlry was horribly placed. It should have been placed behind your infantry and not on the flanks. In the game he had no way of using his balys if you just huddled and took care of skirmish first
instead you wasted your balys (forgetting about them completely) and then proceeded to waste your valuable HA.

3. Charging his archers is what finally took away the slight advantage that you had and sacrificed the whole game. Why you have done that I have no idea.

Before that cavalry charge you had the game in my opinion. Though you made a ton of mistakes, I think Friesian, kept missing opportunties and keeping you in the game. Frankly, i think he deserves major kudos for actually being able to use his balys at all in this level of money - against an experienced opponent he woudl have seen his error in bringing them. Basically, you came out of deployment/selection on top of Friesian, but you gave away all your advantages and made life way too easy for him.

Once your cavlary was routed Friesian made some micro errors and almost paid for it, but you also kept lagging in charges taking too long in flanking and rear attacking. Of course by that stage he had a huge cavalry advantage, but his infantry being too spread out was not able to meet your oblique attack and you had a minor chance to succeed. Instead you moved a bit slow and that sealed your fate comepletely.

Great game, as you are learning the ways, but one suggestion for you Clem. When engaging in low denarii don't bring balys and regardless of everything eles keep your untis together and not chasing some stragglers or commiting suicide charges - you give too many advantages to your enemy.

One thing for sure you surely outdid Friesian in the set up, as your army was better designed to win this game, I think.

Thanks for the great watch!!!

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