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Total War Heaven » Forums » Medieval & Shogun: Total War » Lets talk about good ole times...
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Topic Subject:Lets talk about good ole times...
TheGoldChevron01
Legionary
posted 25 May 2008 18:27 EDT (US)         
I know the game is pretty much ancient by now, but does anyone still play?
Who is/was your favourite faction and why?
Any memorable moments? Did anyone actually manage to defeat the Mongols as soon as they arrived in Khazar?

My favourite faction would have to be, hands down, the Danes. The Viking units you have access to in the early game are excellent during the whole time period, and they have a nice postition from which there are many options as to where to expand.

One of my most memorable moments was sitting in Scandinavia getting fat and rich off my trade routes building many many armies, then setting them loose to kill anything and everything.

I never did manage to defeat the Mongols in Khazar, although i did when they invaded Pereslavyl. They assaulted my Citadel, and i managed to kill their faction leader. Bye bye Mongols.

Britain, Britain, Britain!... We've had running water for over ten years and we invented the cat... - Tom Baker
To die in battle is nothing. To live defeated is to die every day. - Napoleon Bonaparte

MTW1 Sicily AAR - Finished 01/09/2008
2009 Snorri Sturlusson Award. Thanks
AuthorReplies:
An Argonaut
Banned
posted 31 May 2008 13:31 EDT (US)     1 / 23       
I love MTWI! I'm actually playing it right now (Well, MTW Viking Invasion)

My favorite faction tends to go by period:

Early is definitely Byzantine, with Alexios Komnenos as your awesome faction leader and really good troops you are forced to make advances early. Holding onto Italy, driving into Europe, crushing the heretics in the east! And then your faction slowly descends into trouble as generation after generation becomes more indolent and perverse.

High is France, I love trying to fend off the Muslims in the Holy land, in fact, right now I'm doing a Frnech high campaign where I'm basically focusing only on the Holy Land and not making any advances in Europe.

I like the Germans in Late, going after Mongols, Poles, Hungarians, Italians, Danes and Frenchman in quick succession is quite the rush.

Sicily and Italy are close runner up for every age, as well as the Alomohads and the Egyptions.

I did indeed beat them in Khazar once, but it was a smaller horde than usually comes (in the campaign I'm doing right now, a truly monstrous force came. Thank God I'm not the Russians) The key is lots of spears in the woods.
Jax
HG Monument
(id: Jax Omen)
posted 02 June 2008 12:25 EDT (US)     2 / 23       
Turks early - you can take Egypt within the first few turns, which gives you an excellent position to expand from, seen as you own some of the richest territories around. From their you have the choice of expanding across Africa and into Spain, warring with the Byzantines, or sitting back and making a huge trading fleet (actually the fleet can be in most sea squares quite quickly, which basically gives you the option of attacking anywahere). If you do ally or ignore the Byzantines, they always get huge since their rear flank suddenly isn't a risk, and so you always have a huge enemy to fight. As a plus the Turkish late game units are both great fun and excellent in battle.

house won this
TheGoldChevron01
Legionary
posted 02 June 2008 16:13 EDT (US)     3 / 23       
Cool, good to see that the game still has some (albeit waning) support

I loved getting kick arse generals as the byzantines and overwhelming the locals with superiority, but their only downside for me was that their provinces were poorly developed and those darn horse archers.

The Almos are cool for the early game, they have better troops than most and they cost less in upkeep too, get lots of armies and steamroll Europe and Egypt, very fun..

Nice bit of luck there with the Mongols Argonaut, for me they always invade Khazar with about 10 or so full stacks and i just get overwhelmed. Halbediers rule against them, hugely satisfying to smash the cream of their army with mere militia.

I tried a Turkish campaign started in the late era and i have to say its probably one of the best campaigns i ever played, its cool to build an empire from just one province. You have to watch your back from the start with Egypt, the Mongols and Byzantines at your throats, and it just adds to the madness. And like you say, their late game units are awfully good

Britain, Britain, Britain!... We've had running water for over ten years and we invented the cat... - Tom Baker
To die in battle is nothing. To live defeated is to die every day. - Napoleon Bonaparte

MTW1 Sicily AAR - Finished 01/09/2008
2009 Snorri Sturlusson Award. Thanks
An Argonaut
Banned
posted 02 June 2008 16:35 EDT (US)     4 / 23       
Yea, the Almo Urban Militia along with Muwahid infantry basically dominate anything they come up against.

That being said, what I love about MTWI is seeing my elite armies finally getting trounced when I least expect it, because my general dies or something like that.

I did a Russian campaign this last weekend, High period in Viking Invasion, I basically just did it to withstand the Mongol Invasion.

What I did is occupied all the provinces except Crimea, Ryazan, Volga Bulgaria, and Khazar. Most of my defenses rested on the rivers.

Anyhow, after some twenty years, the death of one of my excellent generals, and the disgrace of another, I had broken Mongolian power and finally destroyed them.

The key is keeping infantry that are good against cavalry in the woods (Armored spears and Halbrediers for the most part) This negates the effect of arrows and really helps you trounce their heavy cavalry.

In one battle, I literally had to stretch my lines from one end of the field to the other in order to finally crush their Horse archers.
Andalus
Legionary
posted 04 June 2008 06:33 EDT (US)     5 / 23       
Yes, great to see the old games still played. I still play them from time to time, unfortunately mainly when RTW/M2TW aren't working, or just for nostalgia.
Does anyone still play Shogun? It was probably the best TW game relatively, but it's just so outdated now it's hard to get back into it.

You know, Argonaut, you're right, there was something strangely refreshing about actually being beaten for once.

I remember holding the Mongol armies on the river in Kiev for many years as the Russians, before they were finally so weakened I just marched in right over them. I think I once managed to almost beat the Mongols in Khazar in 1231, I killed about a 1/3, maybe even 1/2 of them, and was about 15 minutes from winning because of the time-limit, but they finally broke me, and my army was defeated. It did make it a lot easier to beat them later though.

The English are a good faction in the early period, they don't have Longbows or Billmen, but they have access to a lot of great regional units. They can recruit cheap, effective troops in Scotland, Ireland and Wales, and once you take Scandinavia, you have the heavy Viking troops. Carls are good as they are beasically the same as Feudal MAAs, but cheaper. I took the entire map before the High period even started as the English once.

I always lamented not being able to play as Novgorod in the early period, access to those Rus Spearmen would have been great, it surprised me that Novgorod always got walked over.

It's strange watching replays from my old battles, and being amazed at the great tactics and strategy used, I suppose I was just a lot more fluent with the controls then, I've got so used to RTW/M2TW controls, I'm nowhere near as good as I was then.

Most memorable moment...hmmm... I'm not sure there is one, just all the great epic battles on a faction's last province. Or when it's just you and another superpower left, the first strike in a long war.
Jax
HG Monument
(id: Jax Omen)
posted 04 June 2008 13:43 EDT (US)     6 / 23       
I much preferred Medieval to Shogun, but I don't think it's unplayable in any sense of the word. I find Medieval 2 to be unplayable, and I prefer both MTW and STW to Rome.

house won this
TheGoldChevron01
Legionary
posted 05 June 2008 16:10 EDT (US)     7 / 23       
Yea, the Almo Urban Militia along with Muwahid infantry basically dominate anything they come up against.
The only problem i found with them is that they get all their units in the early period, which kind of makes battles and the troop roster a bit boring, but still great in the early period.
There was something strangely refreshing about actually being beaten for once.
Actually now that people have bee saying it i find its true. It was annoying but then it made you work that much harder and makes final victory that much more satisfying.
Does anyone still play Shogun?

I played Shogun once when i borrowed it from a friend. Like Jax, i much prefer Medieval, as it was what i started my Total War from, but it seemed ok, i found that the AI is so much more unpredictable and aggressive i remember being invaded on the very first turn.
I always lamented not being able to play as Novgorod in the early period
Have you tried XL mod? That opens up the Novogrods in the early period, if your interested. (as well as a load of others).

I remember having one battle once where i was defending Poland from the Poles as Sweden (XL). I had about 1000 or so men for their 5000. Yeah, most were only slav warriors, but it still felt good when the victory screen came up, the Auto would probably have done me for sure.

Britain, Britain, Britain!... We've had running water for over ten years and we invented the cat... - Tom Baker
To die in battle is nothing. To live defeated is to die every day. - Napoleon Bonaparte

MTW1 Sicily AAR - Finished 01/09/2008
2009 Snorri Sturlusson Award. Thanks
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 05 June 2008 19:02 EDT (US)     8 / 23       
I played hundreds of hours on Shogun and only a little less on MTW1 because I didn't have a computer capable of playing it for a long time. I was a terribly conservative player and the risk style map encouraged me to put thousands upon thousands of troops in border provinces but some of the battles were immense, especially in Shogun where there was often no alternative way around.

The Legendary Geishas were my favourite agents ever but they were just a little over-powered.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

Jax
HG Monument
(id: Jax Omen)
posted 06 June 2008 01:02 EDT (US)     9 / 23       
Haha I loved Geishas. Having an 89% chance to kill a faction leader was win. In fact, Geishas where the only way I could win anything on the Shogun map.

house won this
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 06 June 2008 06:39 EDT (US)     10 / 23       
Sword saints were good fun as well. I remember having an "army" of 20 of them and mowed down entire full stacks with them. RTW beserkers seem lame in comparison.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

An Argonaut
Banned
posted 06 June 2008 07:16 EDT (US)     11 / 23       
I couldn't even do the demo-tutorial for Shogun. I never bought it, so I always stuck with MTW.

One thing I always loved was facing massive empires and either being completely overwhelmed or somehow able to score a few key victories that either launched them into civil war or killed their royal family.

Nothing like disgracing the faction leader into no influence
Andalus
Legionary
posted 06 June 2008 11:06 EDT (US)     12 / 23       
I think Shogun was by far the better game, that was the first I played, back in the day...

After your comment, Jax, I decided to throw myself back into Shogun with a will last night, and, playing a Uesugi Campaign on expert, found it a great change. Yes, still perfectly playable, everybody.
Jax
HG Monument
(id: Jax Omen)
posted 06 June 2008 14:39 EDT (US)     13 / 23       
Euck, expert. No way I could do that. I like to think that on Medieval I could eke out some self-set objectives some of the time, but I have trouble on anything above normal on Shogun.

house won this
An Argonaut
Banned
posted 06 June 2008 16:04 EDT (US)     14 / 23       
I always do Hard for MTWI, mostly because I don't remember how much they stunt you in Very Hard.

Has anyone tried any of the Ancient Total War modifications off of MTW? Any good?

Pike and Musket Total War is pretty impressive, especially playing as the Swedes and getting their sweet troops.
TheGoldChevron01
Legionary
posted 12 June 2008 16:50 EDT (US)     15 / 23       
One thing I always loved was facing massive empires
Thats one of the great things about the old games, although more accurate and all, i think RTW can be too easy if you want it to, you can just bypass enemy armies and make it so the battle is always on your terms.

The old games made you go through the heavily defended provinces most of the time, which provided unique challenges in that they took you out of your comfort zone and made it necessary to adapt more.

The other thing was that if the enemy has a huge empire theyre generals would be unbribable due to loyalty, again making it more of a challenge.
I think it a shame though how they removed Shogun like cut scenes from MTW1, they were cool.

Im forced usually to keep the difficulty level at combined normal, otherwise i go into the red far too easily.

Britain, Britain, Britain!... We've had running water for over ten years and we invented the cat... - Tom Baker
To die in battle is nothing. To live defeated is to die every day. - Napoleon Bonaparte

MTW1 Sicily AAR - Finished 01/09/2008
2009 Snorri Sturlusson Award. Thanks
Bulba Khan
Legionary
(id: stormer)
posted 14 June 2008 00:55 EDT (US)     16 / 23       
I find that in MTW1 the AI at least can think because i can remember this battle against the Germans were they held me with their Chivalric Seargents and some swiss pikemen and used their Gothic Cavalry to hit me in the flanks and rear.
In RTW the AI on Very hard isnt that hard.

I feel the same way I did after playing Stronghold 2 for about 15 minutes, like it was my birthday and all my friends had wheeled a giant birthday cake into the room, and I was filled with hopes dreams and desires when suddenly out of the cake pops out not a beautiful buxom maid, but a cranky old hobo that just shanks me then takes $60 dollars out of my pocket and walks away saying "deal, with it".
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 14 June 2008 10:55 EDT (US)     17 / 23       
One thing I always loved was facing massive empires and either being completely overwhelmed or somehow able to score a few key victories that either launched them into civil war or killed their royal family.
It's a shame that Barbarian Invasion is the only TW game since MTW1 to use this rebellion model.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

An Argonaut
Banned
posted 14 June 2008 17:37 EDT (US)     18 / 23       
It did and it didn't. To be honest, I think one of the best parts of the 2D map is that it makes rebellions and such far more realistic. Like when the peasants revolt you fight a battle, instead of simply having your troops evicted.

The AI certainly does think, and they always take up good positions. I've seen them form up a bunch of cavalry units into a column to march on a road that cut through a forest, so that they wouldn't find themselves hampered by the trees.
edebosdari
Legionary
posted 10 August 2008 09:37 EDT (US)     19 / 23       
Ahh, to be sure, Shogun's AI had an agressive slant that seemed to be diluted by Rome. Even in BI (btw I only play on max difficulty - a childhood status thing that never left me), the hordes were like big blunding cows that swerved into traps and were easily outmanouvered. Shogun's denser map gave less room to move and so made cunning strategy far more important. As for the battles, the computer had a certain togetherness in Shogun. I almost always found it laughably easy to divide and conquer units in Rome, especially when they were defending in an open battle.

I doubt that i'll get an Empire ready computer until some time after it comes out, so i'll probably still be playing a spot of the old Shogun when Empire 2 is on the cards......
Bulba Khan
Legionary
(id: stormer)
posted 12 August 2008 17:58 EDT (US)     20 / 23       
yeah, the AI seem cleverer on STW and MTW, in MTW it happened a couple of times were knights just take out my wings and mass rout the rest of my army.

Edit:- has anybody tried marring a princess to the king? i have and It gives you baaaad traits as I said in TGC's AAR.

My fav faction would be Russia in high period, having only 20 turns to get ready for the mongolian invasion, once I had 2 stacks of Halberdiers and boyars against 12,000 troops of thiers in a bridge battle, oh the kill count, I couldn't believe my eyes, the hold mongol horde went forever.
That battle lasted for 4 hours.

I feel the same way I did after playing Stronghold 2 for about 15 minutes, like it was my birthday and all my friends had wheeled a giant birthday cake into the room, and I was filled with hopes dreams and desires when suddenly out of the cake pops out not a beautiful buxom maid, but a cranky old hobo that just shanks me then takes $60 dollars out of my pocket and walks away saying "deal, with it".

[This message has been edited by stormer (edited 08-12-2008 @ 06:05 PM).]

Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 12 August 2008 19:14 EDT (US)     21 / 23       
Edit:- has anybody tried marring a princess to the king? i have and It gives you baaaad traits as I said in TGC's AAR.
Bet she could marry her cousin though?

I miss that little feature from MTW actually. It would be fun to completely scupper your king.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

Bulba Khan
Legionary
(id: stormer)
posted 13 August 2008 05:12 EDT (US)     22 / 23       
yeah, she probably would, the other good two features i can remember are civil war and resurgences, you would think that you have destroyed that faction for good.

I feel the same way I did after playing Stronghold 2 for about 15 minutes, like it was my birthday and all my friends had wheeled a giant birthday cake into the room, and I was filled with hopes dreams and desires when suddenly out of the cake pops out not a beautiful buxom maid, but a cranky old hobo that just shanks me then takes $60 dollars out of my pocket and walks away saying "deal, with it".
TheGoldChevron01
Legionary
posted 13 August 2008 12:53 EDT (US)     23 / 23       
the other good two features i can remember are civil war and resurgences
Apparently it is sometimes good to encourage a civil war within your own faction if your king is really bad, but id rather live with a bad king than have my kingdom torn into bits. However, civil war in another faction, now THAT was good hehe.

Resurgencies could be both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in someone elses lands, a curse in yours.

I do miss some of the neat,yet bizarre things, you could do in STW and MTW, like assassinate your own King, or put your own King on trial for heresy, and even try and frame your own king for treason with a spy. Now you'd probably never want to, but the fact that you could made it cool.

Britain, Britain, Britain!... We've had running water for over ten years and we invented the cat... - Tom Baker
To die in battle is nothing. To live defeated is to die every day. - Napoleon Bonaparte

MTW1 Sicily AAR - Finished 01/09/2008
2009 Snorri Sturlusson Award. Thanks
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