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Total War Heaven » Forums » Medieval & Shogun: Total War » MTW is so different to play compared to the newer ones...
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Topic Subject:MTW is so different to play compared to the newer ones...
Ischenous
Legionary
posted 26 November 2008 16:32 EDT (US)         
...So much so I need peoples advise, if any still can give it.

I need to know about general campaign tactics, what my priorities should normaly be at the start of the campaign and how to get a decent income ( you can only trade with yourself?) etc.

Basicly, I am completly lost. Sombody here must be able help...

Calling all new people. USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION before asking a question. Thank you.
Alert the APOCOLYPSE is coming!!!!!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM(Itcame)
"TWH Guild Award (Best Duo/Trio) -Ischenous/IJ"- Tryhard. Why he chose that nomination, I don't know...
AuthorReplies:
Andalus
Legionary
posted 26 November 2008 19:34 EDT (US)     1 / 11       
Your first priorities should be rebel province grabbing. Unlike the later games, the first person to try usually gets it (Whereas in RTW you often see several armies try and fail to take a rebel settlement). Whoever does the best from this has the edge in the early game.

You want to get a fort and watchtowers in each province asap. Get a Spearmaker and Bowyer built quickly (For most factions) to give you some decent troops. Cavalry generally do not feature hugely in most armies for some time, for the Western Europeans certainly.

Who are you playing? Let us know and I can more specific advice. The English are a good faction to start with, and not just from my own bias. The Italians are another good one. In the Early Period of course, don't start in the High or Late until you are more confident with the game.

Oh, and do you have Gold Edition? If so, make for Scandinavia, if you are in the vicinity. There are some excellent regional units!

Edit: You can't understand how happy I am to see a post in this forum...

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 11-26-2008 @ 07:36 PM).]

Ischenous
Legionary
posted 27 November 2008 12:18 EDT (US)     2 / 11       
Well, I've tried two English campaigns one to try and get a feel for the game and the other was a serious attempt. I tried getting hold of Wales and Scottland then try and rush France, which worked until they came back with more than I had to spare, being spread too thin. The only other I have tried is HRE. I did well until I was attacked on multiple sides and had no money.

I'll try another English campaign and yes, I have gold edition.

Calling all new people. USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION before asking a question. Thank you.
Alert the APOCOLYPSE is coming!!!!!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM(Itcame)
"TWH Guild Award (Best Duo/Trio) -Ischenous/IJ"- Tryhard. Why he chose that nomination, I don't know...
Andalus
Legionary
posted 27 November 2008 12:31 EDT (US)     3 / 11       
Playing as the English does need a slightly different attitude to Rebels. The obvious targets are full of Longbowmen and Highland Clansmen, which are the Cretans and Woad Warriors of MTW. Not too soon, not too late, is the best way to do it. In fact, rushing France is a higher priority (But best not until you have forts in Aquitaine, Anjou and Normandy). French early armies are mostly Peasants and Urban Militia.

You have a huge advantage with Fyrdmen. They are Feudal Sergeants (Next level of Spearmen) in all but name. But you can get them a tier earlier than everyone else, except only in Wessex, Mercia and Northumbria. Use these to batter aside those Peasants and Militia, combined with the force of your Royal Knights (Just remember - they don't respawn like in RTW).

The Italians, btw, have a similar advantage with Italian Infantry. These are the same cost, but better, than Chivalric Sergeants, and unlike Chiv Sergeants they can be trained before the High Period. But you have to survive long enough to get them before you can start spamming them.

Back to the English, you also have Hobilars (As do the French). The Spanish and Germans don't get cavalry until Mounted Sergeants (At Keep level). Aquitaine should be pumping out these as Wessex churns out Fyrdmen. Flanders is a key province. Not only is it one of the richet provinces in Europe, excepting Italy, it connects your English and French lands, so make that a target.

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 11-27-2008 @ 12:32 PM).]

Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)
posted 28 November 2008 09:30 EDT (US)     4 / 11       
One thing I really enjoyed in the original MTW (or VI) was to play as a medium-sized faction and go out raiding. I enjoyed this particularly as cav-heavy countries like Poland, with their awesome retainers. Basically you get a full stack of quality units (not necessarily highest quality, but good enough that you know you can win) and then move them from one enemy province to the next. You're not there to stay, only to destroy all buildings and make a load of money. Don't bother undertaking sieges, just move on within a turn. You'll have the enemy tailing you and if your stack is impressive enough they'll also avoid battle. If you do decide to stay somewhere after a while (useful if the province is completely abandoned by the enemy and it is has good regional units, for example in Switzerland) the province will serve as a distraction for your enemies. If you won't stay anywhere, you'll have wasted their armies and provinces.

Of course, this only works if you have enough money to afford a full stack army.

Kor | The Age of Chivalry is upon us!
Wellent ich gugk, so hindert mich / köstlicher ziere sinder,
Der ich e pflag, da für ich sich / Neur kelber, gaiss, böck, rinder,
Und knospot leut, swarz, hässeleich, / Vast rüssig gen dem winder;
Die geben müt als sackwein vich. / Vor angst slach ich mein kinder
Offt hin hinder.
Ischenous
Legionary
posted 29 November 2008 05:52 EDT (US)     5 / 11       
I have taken Wales, Scottland and that provence rebel south of
Aquitaine. I have an army with 2 hobilars and about 9 or so urban milita with one or two archers too. Similar in Normandy and Wessex, so I think I can take on the French.

Is there any point in lowering taxes unless there are PO problems? I just put them as high as possible. Oh and how do you take a screen shot? I can't figure it out.

Calling all new people. USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION before asking a question. Thank you.
Alert the APOCOLYPSE is coming!!!!!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM(Itcame)
"TWH Guild Award (Best Duo/Trio) -Ischenous/IJ"- Tryhard. Why he chose that nomination, I don't know...
Andalus
Legionary
posted 29 November 2008 06:29 EDT (US)     6 / 11       
Shift-PrintScreen, Alt-Tab, Ctrl-C.

Yes, you have to do it manually. But MTW is a lot easier to do this with since it isn't such a huge program.

Taxes - high as possible, there are no side effects. If you click on the options button (Arrow to right of mini-map), there is an option to automatically manage taxes. Click that it will keep taxes as high as possible while keeping PO above 100% (If it goes below, there is a danger of rebels revolting in your provinces). Also, if you press Shift, you can see the rough loyalty of your provinces (Green=good, Red=bad).

Yes, Navarre is also a good target. It can train Spanish Jinetes later, which will be useful, so get a stables there (Must build 1st level farms first).

And don't forget my advice about Fyrdmen. Get a spearmaker in Wessex sharpish!


Edit: From my current English campaign. One day, Isch, all this could be yours...


I've already got the 2/3 of all provinces needed for short victory, but I'm going for total domination. Seeing as it is 1208 already, I don't think I'll be able to wrap this up before the Mongolsget here. But I have vast armies in the east, and I will have Chivalric Knights by then, so I might be able to beat them off when they arive.

And this is why Scandinavia is very useful in the early period, once it is built up a bit...


And finally - a word on siege assaults. At anything above a Fort, you will take ridiculous numbers of casualties, even if the garrison is tiny. In fact, with the smallest garrisons, the castle will only fall to a direct assault, which is pretty annoying, especially if you don't have any decent siege weaponry around...


And yes, the besieger takes casualties along with the besieged - accept it.

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 11-29-2008 @ 06:54 AM).]

Ischenous
Legionary
posted 29 November 2008 07:56 EDT (US)     7 / 11       
I'll get some screenshots up soon.

The French are mostly beaten apart from Ile de France and Champagne. They still hold forts in Flanders, Brittany and Toulouse but have no armies save one or two units in places.
I've been threatened with excomunication though. Is it that bad that I should stop, giving up my advantage or carry on? (Does this include passive seiging?)

How good is artillary in open battle? They seem accurate so far, since the first shot a mangonel fired (in the whole campaign) killed the French king.

After I conquer France, where next? Germany is right next to me but Spain looks lie a nice target too.

Also, remind me to never type in the early morning like I did earlier...

Calling all new people. USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION before asking a question. Thank you.
Alert the APOCOLYPSE is coming!!!!!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM(Itcame)
"TWH Guild Award (Best Duo/Trio) -Ischenous/IJ"- Tryhard. Why he chose that nomination, I don't know...
Andalus
Legionary
posted 29 November 2008 09:26 EDT (US)     8 / 11       
I've been threatened with excomunication though. Is it that bad that I should stop, giving up my advantage or carry on? (Does this include passive seiging?)
It does include passive seiging, yes, as far as I know. I wouldn't worry about it; it is more important to grab France. The only disadvantages are a) You cannot launch crusades, b) The Pope may request a crusade against your lands, c) You won't receive any rewards from the Pope for fighting the Church's enemies.

You are not in a position to launch crusads now anyway. Neither are the other factions. And the Papal rewards tend to fizzle out after the first twenty years or so regardless.
How good is artillary in open battle? They seem accurate so far, since the first shot a mangonel fired (in the whole campaign) killed the French king.
Sheer fluke! Artillery are mostly not worth the extra unit space in field battles, especially since they cannot move (The heavier ones cannot turn, either). Send them along with your armies, but only for siege assaults to knock out the towers (and/or walls if it is stone).
After I conquer France, where next? Germany is right next to me but Spain looks lie a nice target too.
Spain isn't so secure in MTW, there are land bridges with Morocco. Still a good target though, and it will make your route to the Holy Land easier later. I usually take out Aragon first. Germany is also good. It will leave you with a wide border, though, but it will give you access to Denmark. The choice is yours.
Bulba Khan
Legionary
(id: stormer)
posted 29 November 2008 17:39 EDT (US)     9 / 11       
Oh, I am so happy to see a thread here.
I suggest you get spain first then while you are half way through North africa, call a crusade.
Are you doing total domination or that points thing.
Also look out for mercaniries.

I feel the same way I did after playing Stronghold 2 for about 15 minutes, like it was my birthday and all my friends had wheeled a giant birthday cake into the room, and I was filled with hopes dreams and desires when suddenly out of the cake pops out not a beautiful buxom maid, but a cranky old hobo that just shanks me then takes $60 dollars out of my pocket and walks away saying "deal, with it".
MisplacedPope
Legionary
(id: misplacedgeneral)
posted 08 December 2008 16:24 EDT (US)     10 / 11       
One of us, one of us . . .

Different as in better, of course.

Some advice, you'll find you either play very cautious (as in, keeping at least a decent force in every border province) or in a more risky matter (not doing so, but instead relying upon attacking the enemy) each one works, and each one will fail.

Be wary of who your heir is, if he is a incestuous incest child, get him killed ASAP. Strong kings mean stable kingdoms.

Also, you'll discover something about this game that is certainly not in the others: A logical command star system. For every 2 command stars, your troops receive a valor point. With enough valor, urban militia can take on higher quality units and thrash them.

Make use of the woods, spears and militia units in woods can generally take on most cavalry units (bodyguards included) especially when you come to face the mongol hordes.

Be reasonable with crusades, failed crusades often result in lessened influence. Attacking allies results in lessened influence. Taking territories and winning battles gains influence. Influence keeps enemies at bay, allies on your side, and generals loyal.

Build build build! Builder traits do a lot for you, and the construction of churches often gets you the thousand florin gift from the Pope.

Look out for rich provinces and key provinces. Flanders will make you loads of money, Lorraine is an excellent border. The fewer provinces you have bordering the enemy, the safer you are.

I think you owe it to all of us MTW fans to give us a (favorable) review of this greatest of TW games.

"It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good." Jack Nicholson
TheGoldChevron01
Legionary
posted 09 December 2008 15:29 EDT (US)     11 / 11       
Hi.

Out of Germany and Spain to attack, i would go with Spain.
i) Spain has rich farmlands which will earn quite a lot of money when developed. German provinces arent all that great, the only advantage being the ability to train slavs if you get far enough, which arent that good anyway

ii)Every Spanish province is on the coast, allowing them all access to trade and shipyards. Most German provinces are inland and deprived of trade oppurtunities

iii)Capturing the whole of Spain will only leave you bordering with one faction, going for Germany potentially leaves you bordering 4 to 5 factions.

iv)Capturing Spain will make it easier to dominate the Straights of Gibraltar with ships, which should secure your rear from potential sea invasions by the Italians and such like.

v)Taking Spain will give you the oppurtunity to war with non-Christian factions, eliminating (or at least reducing) the chance of excommunication.

You will probably be driven to conquer Germany as well at some stage, but Spain has more to benefit in the early game.
Dont forget to check the bottom of the finance scroll regularly as well to keep a check on how much expendable income you have per turn. (That is, try not to spend too much more than the projected profits for the turn).

Hope this helps

Britain, Britain, Britain!... We've had running water for over ten years and we invented the cat... - Tom Baker
To die in battle is nothing. To live defeated is to die every day. - Napoleon Bonaparte

MTW1 Sicily AAR - Finished 01/09/2008
2009 Snorri Sturlusson Award. Thanks
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