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Topic Subject: [Hotseat A] Turkish Hotseat Campaign
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posted 29 January 2009 19:15 EDT (US)   
Hey guys, I decided since my turn in Swamprats Hotseat campaign is finally coming up soon, I'd start a topic so people not in the game can check out the Turkish side of the game, and offer any comments on me strategy.

--IMPORTANT--
If you are one of the following people,

YOU SHOULD NOT BE HERE!

Son of Ra - England
EoJ - Spain
Hoppylyte - Venice
Swamprat: Sicily

--END OF IMPORTANT STUFF--


So.. the Turks. Of the five player-controlled factions, we're the only muslim faction, and heck the only non-catholic one. That runs the problem of the Pope.. though it also gives us some freedom for the same reason.

Lets look at our strengths. We have a nice choice of mounted archers, decent spear militia in the form of Saracen militia, we're the only one of the player factions that can recruit Naffatun and Hashashim, and we got the awesome Janissary units late game. Our weaknesses? Poor offensive infantry with the exception of the Hashashim and Janissary Heavy Inf, very few choices with melee cavalry, and fairly spread out territories. Oh, and not to mention the Mongols..

I've already thought of my first few rounds worth of tactics. Short term goal is to unify my lands and create a strong base in which to spread out. Four cities can be taken within the first few turns, Baghdad, Adana, Smyrana, and Tbilisi. Long term goal, is after my territories are unified, is to create a strong defensive position at Constantinople. If I can hold that pass and the one just south of it, I can defend against any damned crusades from land. The sea however, is where I'll be defensively weak. I plan on taking the two island towns to the south of my lands to help fortify the sea. Once thats done I'll be (mostly) protected from the west. To protect against the south, I plan on allying Egypt (for now) and making sure I stay on their good side. To the north I'm relying on the vastness of Russia's land to protect me, though I'll probably put watch towers on my northern borders.

So, what do you guys think of these initial plans? Any suggestions.. comments..? Lemme know.
Replies:
posted 30 January 2009 01:50 EDT (US)     1 / 48  
Your plan sounds good, I don't have much experience with Turkey myself, but the main danger seems to be that you'll overextend yourself.
Also, spies and watchtowers are necessary to keep tabs on the various valleys to watch out for rebels and enemies.
Keep us posted!

You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.

Chauvinism is not a particularly nice trait at the best of times but can be suicidal when the person your talking too can have you executed on a whim.

Facebook, anyone?
posted 01 February 2009 00:02 EDT (US)     2 / 48  
Consolidate Anatolia first. Allying Egypt is OK but bear in mind they will most likely expand at your expense. The Byzantines sometimes will attack Iconium with a large force so watch out there.

Allying with at least one of the Catholic nations will lessen the effects of Crusade. Especially that of a human nation. Perhaps if you ally with Venice, you can safely divide the Byzantine lands among yourselves and live on good terms. Sicily is another good choice to ally with.

Michael Jackson
posted 13 February 2009 18:57 EDT (US)     3 / 48  
I don't think the Byzantines will be a problem, Venice is already ripping them to shreds.. and I'm working on an alliance with Sicily right now. Just gotta convince him that the Venetians are his enemy..
posted 16 February 2009 00:34 EDT (US)     4 / 48  
Allying Sicily is fine, as long as you have plans to deal with him later after you guys take on Venice. Be as friendly to the Sicilians as possible but be firm in your requests/demands. Make sure you grab good settlements form the Venetians in the early fighting. Surprise is the key here.

Michael Jackson
posted 16 February 2009 21:57 EDT (US)     5 / 48  
Bah, well, getting Sicily to attack Venice isn't going to work, those two are already allies. I'm just going to ally with Venice against the Byzantines, focus on solidifying my land, then probably go after Egypt.


Also, I have a question.. what units are good for attacking cities when Autoresolve is enforced? My armies are getting slaughtered by the AI atm, I'm thinking its because of me horse archers..
posted 16 February 2009 22:00 EDT (US)     6 / 48  
what units are good for attacking cities when Autoresolve is enforced?
Two words. SARACEN MILITIA! Aside from great stats, they also have auto-resolve bias against any cavalry type. Great when fighting enemies commanded by Bodyguards as well as assaulting settlements.

Training loads of assassins from your cities (you need city minimum) and getting Hashishim's Guild will enable you to train Hashishim. Very good unit to have early game. Upkeep is high though.

So the bottom line is get City Watch ASAP and churn out those Saracen Militias.

On the diplomatic note, if Sicily and Venice are allied then watch out for the borders. They are both in position to attack you.

Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 02-16-2009 @ 10:07 PM).]

posted 18 February 2009 22:11 EDT (US)     7 / 48  
Good ol' Saracen militia.. I'll work towards em. Damned cavalry archers are worthless in sieges I guess.. and thats what I'm doing alot of right now >.O
posted 06 March 2009 03:16 EDT (US)     8 / 48  
Greetings. As the original player Gagonite is temporarily indisposed, I am acting as the sub for the time being. Here is my progress so far.

I discovered the Rebels in Anatolia as well as the Middle East was giving Gagonite's forces a hard time(he was replused at least twice) so I immediately called a Jihad to Baghdad. Baghdad however, is not what I only wanted.

Using the Jihad as an excuse, I can field a good sized army while improving the Turkish economy, which was in a slump when I received the game.


Adana Taken.


Gagonite had his faction leader positioned next to Smyrna. Lets assault it.


Allah be praised. Two settlements (very crappy settlements though) gained in one turn.

Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 03-06-2009 @ 03:18 AM).]

posted 06 March 2009 14:33 EDT (US)     9 / 48  
I played Turks at the Kingdoms Crusader Campaign, i must say: Always make good use of your horse archers! Hit and Run tactics for example. Also i love the Jan H Infantry!
If you have good strategies and are good at timing you don't need the cavalry.
Move your army or wait for the enemy to attack and raid with horse archers and the cavalry you have. Use the infantry and archers as main piece. And try to micro your archers good. Also siege weapons can always come in handy if your enemy is with to much, ballista and catapult for example can take out a nice amount of units over time, so does the horse archers.
Try to capture your enemy infantry and general in fear: walk with horse archers to the back of the army (try to stay out of archer fire) or with cavalry.
Than play like you're going to attack the general (mostly some pieces of the army detach from the main part because they are scared for example the general)
If the general detaches and you use cavalry, instantly attack the archers or light infantry from their back. If you have cavalry archers you can attack horse archers, but look out for the general.
If the main army is detaching a group, get on them or the general. If you attack the group than also send your army a bit closer and bring the enemy in your archers range. If you have cavalry hit the detaching army, don't go for the general he'll be sure to kill your cavalry and your cav goes to waste.
Expect to sacrifice some guys when using these strategies. But i only attack when i have a big army so i can capture multiple cities/castles from the enemy and my army can survive longer and defend the city longer and i can detach some guys to the city and carry on to the next one.

[This message has been edited by Nick The Hun (edited 03-07-2009 @ 02:48 AM).]

posted 09 March 2009 06:27 EDT (US)     10 / 48  
Good advice, were it not for the fact that all battles are autoresolved.

You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.

Chauvinism is not a particularly nice trait at the best of times but can be suicidal when the person your talking too can have you executed on a whim.

Facebook, anyone?
posted 15 March 2009 21:47 EDT (US)     11 / 48  
Another bountiful turn for the Seljuk Turks.

Venice, played by Hoppylite, was interested in an alliance so I indulged him. I even gave him a significant tribute to seal the alliance. Won't hurt to suck up to the strongest Catholic nation who happens to be my neighbor. As long as Hoppy is earnest in his alliance, I;m sure we could do great things together.


Crown Prince Mustafa assaulted Aleppo on his way to Baghdad.


It fell soon enough but my men had suffered some casualties. All for a small Mottle and Bailey. I hope it was worth it.


Here is the overall ranking for the Sultanate of Iconium (Turks). As you can see, just three turns after I got the game from Gagonite, I have rejuvenated the Turks and they are currently number three in the world.



I doubled my original domains without too much effort through my own brand of Blitz but basically all the new acquisitions are crappy settlements. Still, early bird catches the worm and all that. I hope it will pay off in the end.

Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 03-15-2009 @ 09:51 PM).]

posted 26 March 2009 03:43 EDT (US)     12 / 48  
Turn 8 for the Sultanate of Iconium.

It seems my faction heir Mustafa is finally becoming a man. What kinda name is Dervise Derbil anyway?


Salih al Alai, the ruler of Mosul has been besieging Baghdad--the Jihad target for quite a while. It is time to take the place.


Victory with some losses and 4000 florins to boot. Baghdad is already a city so I cannot convert it to a castle, shame.


Newly married Crown Prince Mustafa assaults Edessa, the last Rebel stronghold which separates my holdings.


Allahu Akbar! Since the defenders enjoyed numerical superiority, I suppose any victory is worthy enough. I still didn't like my casualties, for it is my intention to secure Damascus with all due haste.



With these two acquisitions, my Turkish holdings had been increased to ten from the five I inherited from Gagonite. I am still not powerful enough to take on any of the human players but I am the top dog in these rebel infested regions.

Michael Jackson
posted 28 March 2009 05:58 EDT (US)     13 / 48  
You should accept Venetian offer and split Byzantine.
Let them have Constantinople and focus on building up good economy and def for the incoming Mongols.
Most probably then you will get attacked by money hungry Venetians so you must be ready to strike back.
I suggest you make a nice fleet just to bug them from time to time.
You should secure those island castles for a last stand if it ever comes to that.
Also an alliance with Egypt should be good for you.
Try to get good relations to the factions that are bordering Venece so that they will jump in the fight for you,HRE or Hungary should do the trick,especially Hungary if Venetians took Sofia and Zagreb.
posted 29 March 2009 21:35 EDT (US)     14 / 48  
Venice, ruled by Hoppylite agreed to leave me alone and have peaceful relationship. For the moment, I trust him. Hoppy is busy with the Byzantines and his western human neighbors are giving him no peace. I think the Turks are relatively safe for the time being. That doesn't mean I relaxed my guard; it just means I think I'm free to expand a bit further.

Hoppy is only 2 turns from taking Constantinople and he already took Nicaea. The rest of the Byzantine settlements are not worth enough to go to war with them. I will try for Rhodes, since that place is a good fleet producing location. Hoppy seems OK with that.

As for allying Hungary or the HRE, I will think about it. I don't think I should rely on AI nations too much. As for Egypt, an alliance can be good for the short term. Thanks for the tips, Xishko.

Michael Jackson
posted 05 April 2009 23:38 EDT (US)     15 / 48  
Turn 9.

Nothing of importance happened on this turn except the Byzantines are gone and I am now bent on consolidating my holdings. Therefore I will show you guys some statistics of human players to idle away time.

As you can see, the Venetians are now the top dogs after their recent conquest of Constantinople. Though I知 second place, I cannot hope to compete with them. Venice is well on its way to become the regional superpower, a fact that is not lost on the others.


In terms of territories, I知 first but compared with Constantinople, my acquisitions are mere dirt mounds. England has 7 territories now, they are doing well. Sicily has 5 and Spain has 4. Not surprising, considering the fact that they do not have abundant rebel territories to prey upon.


Here is the financial ranking between human controlled factions. Hoppy (Venetian player) now have considerable amount of cash thanks to Constantinople, and we trail behind him with the exception of Spain. It seems EoJ, true to his character, is not spending much; probably saving the money for mercenaries. For EoJ, soldiers always come before buildings in terms of cash investment.


Since Jihad is over, I知 beginning to feel the pressure of money trouble from my relatively large army. I will need to disband some, preferably the cavalry to save cash, but I知 afraid of possible Venetian attack. Hoppy seems trustworthy enough not to attack me at the moment but one must be vigilant just incase. After all, I知 the only Muslim faction here. On that note Hoppy was kind enough to allow my merchant to trade in Nicaea region.



Even my best settlements are not making much money, as you can see from my graph. I don稚 want to put them on very-high tax because I need some population growth. I really need to earn some money at this stage without stunting growth but is there a way?

Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 04-05-2009 @ 11:39 PM).]

posted 12 April 2009 22:47 EDT (US)     16 / 48  
Turn 10.


A decent adoption. This lad will stay in Aleppo while I take my men towards Egypt, my first AI nation target.


The overall ranking. My ranking went down. Probably due to the economic fall out from the finished Jihad.


My military is so far only below Venice. I do not wish to fight Hoppy at this stage simply because he is being such a nice guy, and also my economy cannot support prolonged war.


It seems Venice took Thessalonica. Good news for Hoppy, bad news for the rest of us.


My finance. Shit.


The Venetians arrive! As Hoppy attack Antioch my own men is on their way to Nicosia and then Egypt. The Venetians explicitly stated that they will not touch my lands so I will trust them for I have little choice in the matter.

Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 04-12-2009 @ 10:51 PM).]

posted 20 April 2009 01:48 EDT (US)     17 / 48  
Turn 11 for the Sultanate.


A husband for my daughter. He will do fine as a vanguard general.


Venetian message. Hoppy is really being nice.


Sicilians want to have a piece of Africa, and Swampy sent me this.


My dear son is attacking Nicosia, now the Byzantines are gone. It will make a good base for atacking Egypt.


Venetians already built tons of siege engines, they will storm it in the next turn. They have other things to worry now.


As you can see the Venetian ranking went down, hard.


I see, so they lost a settlement, I wonder which one.


My finance is still shitty. I hope Egyptian settlements will take care of the problem


Judging from this population dip, it is clear that Hoppy's Venice lost Constantinople, probably to rebels.


My merchant's arrive to Nicaea region. Hoppy agreed to let me trade silk there.

Michael Jackson
posted 29 April 2009 23:16 EDT (US)     18 / 48  
Turn 12 was nothing spectacular, except I'm one settlement richer and two settlements richer on the next turn.

Message from Sicily. They agree with the division of Africa. Good.


My son Mustafa attacks Nicosia with some reinforcements from Iconium. The castle fell easily. Moreover, thanks to Hoppy's elimination of the Byzantines, I didn't have to go to war with them to gain this strategic island.


Hoppy agreed to sell me Antioch for 5000 florins, so here is my terms of payment.


Selim al Rashid besieges Trebizond. With Trebizond secured, I will have all of Anatolia with the exception of Nicaea.


Here are my two primary targets in the near future, Alexandria and Cairo. The preliminary analysis suggests they are heavily defended. I will have to train more soldiers in my homeland.

Michael Jackson
posted 04 May 2009 22:52 EDT (US)     19 / 48  
Turn 14.


Hoppy was true to his word and actually sold Antioch to me. I got some Militias when the settlement became mine. Perhaps they can reinforce the Egyptian front.


A general of mine, who is waiting for his soldiers to arrive from Smyrna, had discovered this. A huge fleet of 13 Galleys! It seems Hoppy is planning to turn the Med into his own playground.


On another note, My governor of Yereven took Trebizond, thus completing my conquest of Anatolia. I think a period of consolidation is coming up, barring the war with the Egyptians ofcourse.

Michael Jackson
posted 17 May 2009 07:21 EDT (US)     20 / 48  
Turn 15. The War is On!


My reinforcement finally arrived from Smyrna so my general on Rhodes can finally besiege the place.


More importantly, my Prince is finally at the gates of Alexandria, and after recruiting some mercenaries, he surrounded the place.


War with the Egyptians will probably be long and bloody, even though I caught them unawares. Lets hope what I brought was enough. I cannot spare more soldiers to Egypt because I must watch out for Venice's might.

Michael Jackson
posted 17 May 2009 13:56 EDT (US)     21 / 48  
Your strategy sounds good and similar to my way, but I want to share some of my experiences with you

I played many times with Turks, most of them were successful. As you already noticed the Cavalry Archers are really important for building a good strategy.

I usually follow the historical order. At first I capture Smyrna to the west and Adana to the south. (While expanding my empire I always construct Watchtowers to ensure what's going on my land.) After the two conquests I send diplomats to the Byzantine and Venice and make an alliance with them also I establish a fort alongside the Byzantine border and fill it with Cavalry Archers and 3-4 foot troops.(This will be my western wall while I'm securing the east and south).I usually capture Antioch, Baghdad, Aleppo, Acre and than send an emissary to the Egypt and establish an Alliance with hem too(Somewhat the Turko-Egyptian alliance never lasts long). This alliances provides me some time to capture and secure the Anatolian and Caucasian lands(Trebizond, Yerevan, Tbilisi, Sarkel). After capturing those settlements, I turn my face to the west and attack to the Byzantine on three fronts: Nicaea, Corinth, Nicosia; also I make alliance with Hungary. In the west wing I recommend to take the Egean Islands: Crete and Rhodes (Crete usually rebels against the Venetians after some turns, Turko-Venetian alliance always had the longest duration in my games so keep your troops and wait for the revolt, of course sending an Imam will do good)

Before the Mongolian Invasion I always destroy the Byzantine and try to get along with the Egypt (Causing a war between Moors and Egypt always keeps them busy for some time).

Finally the Mongols: Try to weaken them at all cost. (You may loose battles do not care) The importance of missile cavalry will be seen here. HIT & RUN, after weakening the Horde use Pincer Movement and destroy them. If you couldn't manage to accomplish this, there is an other suggestion; fill your cities with archers and spearman, make holes on your walls(siege your cities make the holes and do not repair them) and wait for the enemy attack. Place your archers and naffatun (if you have any) on the walls and spearman behind the holes.

[JPEG, (211.86 KB)]
(My usual empire: Anatolia, Greece, Italy, Middle East, Caucasia, Crimean and Kıpchak Steppe (Ukraine), Balkans, Mediterranean Islands + North Africa)

"Peace at home, Peace in the world" Gazi Mustafa Kemal Ataturk
"Every Turk is born a soldier." Turkish Proverb
“A wise man remembers his friends at all times; a fool, only when he has need of them.” Turkish Proverb
"A thousand regrets do not cancel one debt." Turkish Proverb

[This message has been edited by AKINCI26 (edited 05-17-2009 @ 01:58 PM).]

posted 17 May 2009 15:15 EDT (US)     22 / 48  
That is all very good but i imagine, like with most Hotseats, this is set to "Auto-resolve everything"? Which would mean strategy will become useless and holes in your walls simply means your end comes swifter. Just spam Saracen Militia (That is the best Turkish spearmen isn't it?). Hopefully the fact you are so heavily spear based and the enemy so heavily cavalry based will throw things in your favour.
posted 17 May 2009 16:19 EDT (US)     23 / 48  
Still, beware the generals with their usual 10 star command and dread...

Think you're a hotshot against the Mongols? Go to the Mongolphobia mod discussions and download the mod, then, you will surely tremble with fear in the face of the Mongols. If you have suggestions/questions, feel free to make a thread. You can download Mongolphobia here. Good luck.

鏑ife lives, life dies. Life laughs, life cries. Life gives up and life tries. But life looks different through everyone's eyes. -Unknown

Read my AAR/Story "The Battle of the Bridge" here!
posted 18 May 2009 03:07 EDT (US)     24 / 48  
Very informative strategy AKINCI26. Unfortunately the battle is auto-resolve so I will not be relying on cavalry, except as mercenaries.
Still, beware the generals with their usual 10 star command and dread...
The Egyptians did not expand aggressively so I think they had no time to build up their generals. My prince has 7 stars so I think he can handle whatever may come.

Michael Jackson
posted 28 July 2009 12:59 EDT (US)     25 / 48  
Unarchived (without looking at any posts)

And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
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