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Total War Heaven » Forums » Mongolphobia Mod » Ways to Defeat the "Super" Units in Mongolphobia.
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Topic Subject:Ways to Defeat the "Super" Units in Mongolphobia.
el_bandito
Legionary
posted 01 March 2009 21:13 EDT (US)         
By now, I'm sure many of you had played deep into my mod, and encountered some unbelievably deadly units, such as the Zombelephants. How to defeat them? Well, even I have limited ideas, so I am opening a thread about most effective way of dealing with those "super" units.

Please offer your opinions on how best to deal with...

1. Zombelephants. (Aztecs)

2. Revenants. (Aztecs)

3. Seraphim. (Papacy)

4. The four Retainers of Apocalypse; Death, Famine, Plague and War. (Papacy)

5. Heaven's Wrath Mortars. (Mongols)

6. Devils' Tongue Elephants, Elephant Musketeers, Elephant Artillery. (Timurids)

7. Nation Smasher. (Timurids)

8. Elephant Rocketeer. (Byzantium)

9. Not a "super" unit but just as annoying--Mongol Horse Archers/Mongol Heavy Archers (Mongols/Timurids)

And more...

Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 03-01-2009 @ 09:15 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus
posted 02 March 2009 11:14 EDT (US)     1 / 9       
1. Zombelephants. (Aztecs)-
Nothing short of a tactical nuke will floor these bad boys from what I've played yet.

2. Revenants. (Aztecs)
Sustained crossbow fire, followed by engagement to the front by feudals before cycle-charging your best heavy cavalry the rear.

3. Seraphim. (Papacy)
Ironically, the easiest. Run some light cavalry towards them- if they don't reach there before the bombs drop, chances are they'll wipe themselves out anyway. Keep your army well clear.

4. The four Retainers of Apocalypse; Death, Famine, Plague and War. (Papacy)
Death is the easiest- spearmen engage with their high defense, and charging from behind with cavalry. Famine you need to rush them in large numbers as quickly as possible. Plague are fairly easily dealt with by either running light cavalry round the side or a direct artillery hit. War requires massed spearmen from what I can see, but I haven't come against them yet. Stakes should also work.

5. Heaven's Wrath Mortars. (Mongols)
Run. Very quickly. Away.
Alternatively, three pronged attack of cavalry- one in the middle, two down each flank and hope one of them reaches the rear so you can engage them in melee. Keep your general away from the main brawl.

6. Devils' Tongue Elephants, Elephant Musketeers, Elephant Artillery. (Timurids)
Greek fire works surprisingly well against most of these, especially devils' tongues. Massed spearmen could work less effectively, but still do. Sheer attrition will have to do in many cases, especially as Elephant Artillery and Devil's Tongues can inflict major pain from a distance. Direct artillery hits work as well.

7. Nation Smasher. (Timurids)
Duck and cover while firing, then send cavalry much like against Heaven's Wrath Mortars.

8. Elephant Rocketeer. (Byzantium)
Let them fire while you cover behind something (ANYTHING!) before engaging in melee. Again, greek fire and direct artillery work as well.

9. Not a "super" unit but just as annoying--Mongol Horse Archers/Mongol Heavy Archers (Mongols/Timurids)
In my poland campaign I've been forced to wait out the arrow storm and hope I've got enough spearmen to counter. Straight heavy cavalry charge should distract them far enough to leave your main force to engage the infantry (if you're lucky, and they actually have infantry). Long range artillery and ranged units will handily counter the normal horse archers, but the heavies are a real problem due to their armor and flame arrows.

EDIT: Limited success with Polish nobles followed by Templars also reported. If you can force them into running into circles you can sometimes catch them with cavalry.

Also, Mongol artillery (Rockets, Catapults) you need to engage as quickly as possible, at the expense of any other unit. Do not approach a rocket launcher solely from the front- at least 2 different directions (3 if protected by horse archers) will be needed to succeed. These things wipe out armies by themselves. The problem is you're mostly on flat battlefields when dealing with these monsters, so buckle up- it's going to be a nasty ride.

And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You

[This message has been edited by EnemyofJupitor (edited 03-02-2009 @ 11:17 AM).]

el_bandito
Legionary
posted 02 March 2009 22:17 EDT (US)     2 / 9       
A very detailed analysis EoJ. It seems you had witnessed your share of hell already.

Catapults and Trebuchets from what I have seen, are not a good answer to the Zombelephants due to either limited range or bad accuracy. I suppose waiting out until the gunpowder event comes will be the best. Cannons and especially Ribaults will definitely bring those beasts down fast. However, should those elephants managed to reach your ranks...


PS: I would love to see some Greek Firethrowers vs. Devil's Tongue Elephants in action, hehe.

Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 03-02-2009 @ 10:18 PM).]

EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus
posted 03 March 2009 15:37 EDT (US)     3 / 9       
That can be arranged.

And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
Andalus
Legionary
posted 03 March 2009 16:11 EDT (US)     4 / 9       
What does Greek fire do to Zombelephants?

Also, quoted from myself in your Portugal AAR:
Reconquista not going so well, eh? Perhaps this is somthing you need to address with the mod. There needs to be some kind of counter to Zombelephants for the poor Portuguese and Spaniards. Give them a tactical unit that has a massive advantage against elephants? Give them a holy zombie-hunter unit? Zinquisitors?
And EoJ also made the suggestion of having a mercenary unit that is very hard to get.

Would the answer perhaps be, dare I say it, to reduce the Zombelephants? Give them a couple less hitpoints, or make them harder for the Azzies to get; it would be a little boost for the player.

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 03-03-2009 @ 04:16 PM).]

el_bandito
Legionary
posted 03 March 2009 20:53 EDT (US)     5 / 9       
Well, Almughavars are highly effective against the Zombelephants as long as those elephants are bogged down and immobile. The trick lies in how to bog down those unstoppable juggernauts.

If one can manage to last until the gunpowder event, Ribaults are absolute elephant killers, zombie or otherwise.


Epic pic BTW, EoJ.

Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 03-03-2009 @ 10:12 PM).]

EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus
posted 04 March 2009 02:27 EDT (US)     6 / 9       
Actually, 'Zingquistitors' are a pretty good idea. Now, if only someone other than Bandito could mod a unit in...

And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
Hoppylyte
Legionary
posted 07 March 2009 22:16 EDT (US)     7 / 9       
Seraphim can take out all of the superunits in Monglophobia. Including Seraphim.
remulu
Legionary
posted 19 March 2009 23:16 EDT (US)     8 / 9       
"9. Not a "super" unit but just as annoying--Mongol Horse Archers/Mongol Heavy Archers (Mongols/Timurids)"


Now I dont actually have Mongolphobia(yet,its on my to-do list after ive played ETW for a bit)


Now for a suggestion.
The idea is to lay stakes in some random location away from your army(Run your archers back to your main army as soon as the battle begins of course:P) and then drive their horse archers away from their army towards the randomly placed stakes(The default deployment is to have you horse archers far out to the side to skirmish with the enemy so it is very easy to herd them away and towards you stakes)...the AI tends to ignore the pointy sticks and you can drive all their horse archers straight onto them.


||||------------------------||||



MMM AAAAAAAAAA MMM
^-----------------^
|-----------------|
|-----------------|
CC AAAAAAAAAAAAA CC


C=cavalry
M=cavalry archers
A=rest of army
the --- is nothing,just taking up space

EDIT:This is as close as I can draw it,just drive their archers onto the stakes

[This message has been edited by remulu (edited 03-20-2009 @ 00:13 AM).]

el_bandito
Legionary
posted 19 March 2009 23:43 EDT (US)     9 / 9       
Stake-and-Herd idea sounds great. Gonna try that out next time I get enough Mongol Archers Mercenaries. Barded mounts did recieve move speed upgrade but they are still slower than Mongol Heavy Archers overall. (I upgraded every single Mongol cavalry speed)

Michael Jackson

[This message has been edited by el_bandito (edited 03-19-2009 @ 11:43 PM).]

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