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Dark Ages: Roman Revival
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Total War Heaven » Forums » Dark Ages: Roman Revival » The Lombards
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Topic Subject:The Lombards
Drakontos
Legionary
posted 29 September 2011 20:17 EDT (US)         
The Lombards (Latin: Langobardi), also referred to as Longobards, were a Germanic tribe of Scandinavian origin who in the 1st century formed part of the Suebi. By the 5th century the Lombards had settled in the valley of the Danube where they subdued the Germanic Heruls and the Gepids.

From the Danube region they conquered the Byzantine Italy in 568 under the leadership of Alboin. They established a Lombard Kingdom in Italy, later named Kingdom of Italy, which lasted until 774, when it was conquered by the Franks, although Lombard nobles would continue to rule parts of the Italian peninsula well into the 11th century.

Their legacy is apparent in the regional appellation Lombardy and the term Lombard banking, after the many Lombard bankers, money-lenders, and pawn-brokers who operated in Western Europe during the Middle Ages.
These chaps start along the Danube, facing off against the Ostrogothic possessions in Illyricum and Pannonia while their victory conditions, presumably, shall be to take Italy.

In vanilla BI, the Lombards were an Alemanni clone, with their name given to two units - Lombard Archers, and Lombard Berserkers. Presumably we can find a way to make them slightly more unique...

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AuthorReplies:
Rinster
Legionary
posted 30 September 2011 08:33 EDT (US)     1 / 13       
maybe we can do a Europa Barbarorum kind of thing, allowing them to recruit their good troops only in Italy, so that they would be forced to move there quickly?

So they can only recruit poorer quality troops in any other areas, but their higher tier whatever they may be in Italy.

I really have nothing to say at this point.
Other than this.
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Drakontos
Legionary
posted 30 September 2011 14:54 EDT (US)     2 / 13       
Perhaps, although that won't really help the AI survive ingame.

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GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 02 October 2011 02:57 EDT (US)     3 / 13       
Allow them to horde?

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
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Drakontos
Legionary
posted 02 October 2011 03:07 EDT (US)     4 / 13       
Oh, most definitely yes to hording.

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Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 02 October 2011 04:57 EDT (US)     5 / 13       
We should not worry too much about AI Lombard survival. Factions wipe each other out all the time. It is natural.

What we do not want is that a really strong AI wipes them out to become stronger.

And of course, primary goal is to make the faction tough but survivable for a human player.

I like the hording idea- it fits with their historical move-about-conquer-move-on type of mentality they had (or were pushed out).

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Drakontos
Legionary
posted 03 October 2011 05:05 EDT (US)     6 / 13       
We should not worry too much about AI Lombard survival. Factions wipe each other out all the time. It is natural.
I beg to differ. Firstly, because in order to make each game play out differently each faction should stand a chance. And on top of that, the Lombards should be able to go whereever and stand a chance, not just Italy. Secondly, because the easiest way to achieve this:
What we do not want is that a really strong AI wipes them out to become stronger.
...is to make sure that all AI are equal.

I (and I am sure many others too) also enjoy having enemy factions survive for a long time. This provides variety in the late game, as opposed to having to fight identical stacks turn after turn, and also allows for better roleplaying. Once a faction is gone, it is gone... one which is only weakened can come back.

So yeah, give them a good Italian AoR or something, but don't let them recruit "their good troops only in Italy".

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GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 03 October 2011 09:37 EDT (US)     7 / 13       
Because they did eventually get ousted from north Italy by the Franks, the region where they apparently held significant influence.

Set their victory conditions to "hold Rome and Milan"?

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Drakontos
Legionary
posted 03 October 2011 17:23 EDT (US)     8 / 13       
Possibly Southern Italy too.

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Seneca Monachus
Legionary
posted 04 October 2011 14:03 EDT (US)     9 / 13       
The first king we know of is called Tato. This king destroyed the kingdom of the Heruli in 510. Remaining Heruls joined the Langobards and moved later with them to Lombardia, today Italy, and some of them sought refuge with the Gepids.

The Eastern Roman empire sought rapprochement towards the Lombards. And around 540 they became foedrati. As foederati they fought in wars against the Ostrogoths and the Persians in the east. Meanwhile in Pannonia the Avars were raiding. The Romans had no interest in this war and did not support the Lombards. Alboin, succesor of king Audoin, signed a pact of non-aggression with the Avars and forge together a large Longobardic army, consisting of veterans of wars against the Goths and Persians. In 567 this army atacked the Gepids and destroyed their kingdom. The last king of the Gepids, Cunimund, was killed and Alboin forced the daughter of the killed king, Rosamund, to marry him.

In the spring of 568, Alboin led the Lombards, together with other Germanic tribes; (Bavarians, Gepidae, Saxons) and Bulgars, across the Julian Alps to invade northern Italy due to their expulsion from Pannonia by Avars.


Later in 572, the thirty-five dukes assembled in Pavia hailed king Cleph. The new monarch extended the boundaries of the kingdom, completing the conquest of Tuscia and laying siege to Ravenna. Cleph tried to consistently pursue the policy of Alboin, which aimed to break the legal-administrative institutions firmly established during Ostrogoth and Byzantine rule, by eliminating much of Latin aristocracy, occupying the lands and acquiring the assets. He too, however, in 574 fell victim of a regicide, slain by a man of his entourage, perhaps instigated by the Byzantines.

Following Cleph's assassination another king was not appointed, and for a decade dukes ruled as absolute monarchs in their duchies, not without internal struggles (Rule of the Dukes or of anarchy).
As you can see the Lombards had quite a lot of "tribes" standing with them when they attacked Italy. So i'd say we give the Lombards a veteran army maybe in Sassanid territory?

And to simulate the idea of strong nobility maybe a building that gives unrest and gives money?

"Wise men speak because they have something to say: Fools because they have to say something" - Plato

[This message has been edited by Seneca Monachus (edited 10-16-2011 @ 07:46 AM).]

Drakontos
Legionary
posted 04 October 2011 16:01 EDT (US)     10 / 13       
Who? I'm pretty sure you don't mean the Sassanids?

(Also do remember they didn't invade for quite some time after the game starts)

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Seneca Monachus
Legionary
posted 04 October 2011 17:22 EDT (US)     11 / 13       
I mean the Lombards. It might be a bit off the time, but i think for gameplay it might be interesting if the Lombards have a strong army far away from home, while their lands aren´t well protected. The player can choose to get the army back to the homelands asap before it gets raided by a neighbour. Or to abandon their lands and conquer new land somewhere else, in the spirit o the Lombards.

Although i agree maybe Sassanid territory is a bit to far in time for it.

"Wise men speak because they have something to say: Fools because they have to say something" - Plato

[This message has been edited by Seneca Monachus (edited 10-04-2011 @ 05:22 PM).]

Rinster
Legionary
posted 05 October 2011 11:36 EDT (US)     12 / 13       
Yeah, maybe somewhere out in modern western russia, like on the edge of the steppes and the forests of eastern europe

I really have nothing to say at this point.
Other than this.
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GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 05 October 2011 12:24 EDT (US)     13 / 13       
Instead of spawning a veteran Lombard army in distant Persia which might be too far away for them to return in one piece, why not just make available an AoR building letting them recruit from the other tribes?

Another option could be to include these other tribes' units as horde units which spawn as the Lombards go horde. Personally this option makes a little more sense to me, but I think it's probably going to cost a few more unit slots...

My last suggestion on this would be to just extend the merc pool said units to that area. Much less of a fuss.

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
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