You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Land of Albion: Total War

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.28 replies
Total War Heaven » Forums » Land of Albion: Total War » General discussion
Bottom
Topic Subject:General discussion
Liam_the_Spartan
Banned
posted 03 July 2011 16:54 EDT (US)         
General discussion about Land of Albion: Total War. A Mod for Medieval 2 Kingdoms.
AuthorReplies:
Liam_the_Spartan
Banned
posted 03 July 2011 16:56 EDT (US)     1 / 28       
Quoted from Scruffy
Faction List:

Druids (papal states-esque faction with Anglesey) non-playable (This is of the Subsidence farming (Brythonic) culture, but controls all non-roman factions)
Minor Tribes (rebel) non-playable

Roman Culture
SPQR (invades Kent in 55BC) emergent, non-playable
Imperium (invaded Essex in 43AD) emergent, non-playable

All the below are playable

Southeastern Culture
Atrebates (Hampshire, Thames Valley)
Cantaci (Kent)
Trinovantes (Essex, Suffolk)
Iceni (Norfolk)
Regenses (Surrey, Sussex)

Peripheral Zone culture
Durotriges (Somerset, Dorset)
Dobunni (Herefordshire, Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire)
Corieltauvi (Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire, Leicestershire)
Cornovii (Derbyshire, Staffordshire, Cheshire)

Subsistence Farming culture (Brythonic)
Silures (South Wales)
Ordovices (North Wales)
Catuvellauni (Hertfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire)
Brigantes (Yorkshire, Lancashire, Durham)

Subsistence Farming culture (Pictish)
Caledonii (Scottish Highlands)
Carvetii (Cumbria and Galloway)
Taexali (Aberdeenshire)
Damnonii (Strathcylde and Central Scotland)

21 factions in total, 17 playable.

Units.
The emphasis is to be accuracy, and ahistorical units, like the head-throwing dudes in the vanilla RTW, have no place in this mod. The main weapons were spear and shield, with most carrying javelins as well. Archers are rare, specialised units, missile will be mostly slingers. Cavalry should be in all factions, with Chariots more common in British forces.

Recruitment will be in a barracks and a chariot builders, merging several chains of construction into 1. The first few buildings will be levies, and then unlocking more elite warrior units later on

In 43AD, when the empire invades, a Marian Reforms-esque event should unlock guerilla-themed units
What is the time scale in the game? 2 turns=1 year, 1 turn=1 year, 1 turn=2 years? Obviously anything more than 2 turns=1 year will make the game incredably short.

[This message has been edited by Liam_the_Spartan (edited 07-03-2011 @ 05:06 PM).]

Liam_the_Spartan
Banned
posted 03 July 2011 17:01 EDT (US)     2 / 28       
I know you are going to try to be Historiaclly Accurate, but can't you throw in a few head hurlers here, a few female warriors there...

Don't you think if there is a roman invasion in 43 AD, people will have already conquered Briton and will be bored?

There will also be swrodmen aswell won't there? And where will the Romans land, in the sea or on the coast?
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 03 July 2011 17:50 EDT (US)     3 / 28       
ok, in answer. There WILL be sword units, but they will be more elite. It will be either 1 turn=3 months or 1 turn=6 months. We can't have any head hurlers or screaming women, as there is no proof they existed. The romans appear on the coast, I have already said where. There's a 'mini-invasion' in 55bc, lead by Julius Caesar, and that should keep it interesting till then. The timurids don't show up until the mid 15th cent in the vanilla game, and no one complained. Think of it as the mongols and timurids

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 03 July 2011 21:37 EDT (US)     4 / 28       
You could do 3 months, and it would be better for marching armies around during the campaign season. However that also delays the onset of the Roman invasions in a sense.

If you do 6 months however it gets kinda ridiculous on the travel time aspect, because with 6 month's time an army should have been able to circumnavigate the entire island twice.

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 04 July 2011 03:44 EDT (US)     5 / 28       
Some concept art for a warrior-class unit:



Note that warriors of the Atrebates and Regnenses should not have warpaint, whereas levy/peasant units should. This would represent the fact that the Britons here had been conquered by Belgic tribes, who did not paint themselves with woad.

A map of the different settlement patterns in Britain in the Late Iron Age, which we have equated with culture. Not the one I was looking for, it's very imprecise. Maybe I'll scan it from my book.

[JPEG, (163.54 KB)]

EDORIX
~ ancient briton ~

/\
/|||| ||||\

(dis ma house)
SwampRat
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 04 July 2011 15:15 EDT (US)     6 / 28       
Just a thought on the Roman faction for your second invasion - particularly if you're worried about the human player having total control before the Romans show up you could go for an 'invited invasion' approach, whereby under certain conditions the Romans would step in to aid a friendly tribe. It's not entirely infeasible and might even have been more likely than a full scale unwelcome challenge.

You could build in something so that once one player gets over X territories then one or more of the other factions gets an option to do a deal with the Romans to get them involved, initially against the strongest faction but if they get a foothold then against everyone who might oppose them. You could even let it start off by just allowing recruitment of some Roman units (in ports?) for the factions requesting Roman aid but with a count-down to full invasion.

Alternatively you could build in some culture/religion effect and have that as a trigger, e.g. trading relations with Rome can be established giving a large boost to income but storing up invasion shaped problems for later.

Feel free to ignore these ideas liberally by the way - my own half attempt at a mod has fairly much drowned under the weight of semi-ideas I've thrown at it...

How developed are your druid/pope plans? Sticking with the same idea you could have the 'excommunication' equivalent being relatively hard to come by but be effectively lead, if the other conditions are right, to something quite against the 'tallest poppy'. The campaign ai can be set to be quite aggressive against someone over X territories too / friendly to other opponents of that person so it might not be needed to use the druids too much for that.

Possibly lastly, following from some of the more recent TW series games, could you try and implement some different scale settlements, so one regional hub (be it hillfort or town (city/castle?)) with several minor villages around. If possible then some penalty for the owners of those villages if the central settlement isn't owned could be interesting.

I think that's it for my daft ideas for now. Good luck with the mod
Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 04 July 2011 16:41 EDT (US)     7 / 28       
Here's a "cultures" map.



Things to note:

The red zone had a few hillforts as well; these were the main centres. However they were not really significant to the socio-economic balance in that area.

The green zone is characterised by undefended settlements. The hillforts are no longer in use, because culturally warfare here is not something which really concerns everyone any more (as in Gaul); peasants may fight, but gone are the days of warrior-farmers when the whole tribe would pull together. Power is now displayed primarily by luxury goods, not just battle prowess. This is in contrast to the blue zone, still stuck in the Middle Iron Age.

Eastern Scotland isn't really brochs and duns, it's more like a Pictish variant of a the SE open settlements and the brochs/duns.

EDORIX
~ ancient briton ~

/\
/|||| ||||\

(dis ma house)

[This message has been edited by Edorix (edited 07-04-2011 @ 04:42 PM).]

Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 04 July 2011 17:32 EDT (US)     8 / 28       
thanks, this should come in handy. I propose that, instead of using the population of the province capital, we use the whole province to reflect isolated farms.

Are there any tribes that are especially maritime? We could make more advanced naval units, maybe

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 05 July 2011 07:33 EDT (US)     9 / 28       
Naval units are basically all wrong I think. All tribes should probably have "boats", just for transport, who might as well have warriors on them to repel pirates. But anything else... I don't think so.

At the beginning of this period, the Durotrīs are the biggest maritime power, because they run the entire trade monopoly with the continent. They might just about have a few units of "warships" to protect their interests. After the mid 50s BCE, the trade monopoly goes to the Trinouantēs thanks to their deal with Rome and the Roman conquest of Armorican tribes: the Strait of Dover becomes the main trade-route for Britain/Gaul, but the Romans will be protecting Trinovante interests at this point, so they shouldn't get fleet units.
thanks, this should come in handy. I propose that, instead of using the population of the province capital, we use the whole province to reflect isolated farms.
Yes. That's really the only way to have any kind of settlements at all except in the SE, most hillforts would have been home to less than 400 people most of the time, Maiden Castle wouldn't have had more than two or three thousand maximum.

EDORIX
~ ancient briton ~

/\
/|||| ||||\

(dis ma house)

[This message has been edited by Edorix (edited 07-05-2011 @ 07:34 AM).]

Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 05 July 2011 12:07 EDT (US)     10 / 28       
Yes, that's what I thought. Mostly boats will be fishing boats or trading vessels (converted with warriors aboard), although the Durotriges could be given something like a 'armed fishing vessel'

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
Liam_the_Spartan
Banned
posted 05 July 2011 17:31 EDT (US)     11 / 28       
Did Britons use any siege equipment? No to catapults, but apart from Rams, anything else? If so, we'll have to make it very hard to set them on fire.

Just a little question, will the Generals be on Chariots or not?
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 08 July 2011 17:00 EDT (US)     12 / 28       
Most settlements will be un-walled, and those that are will only get a wooden palisade at most, so only a ram can be used.

Only the Romans had artillery

Generals will be on chariot, horseback or foot, depending on faction

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 12 July 2011 06:51 EDT (US)     13 / 28       
I have a few ideas for British units in general.

  • The basic British levy/militia unit should have infinite training - ie, you can train as many as you can fit into the recruitment queue. Not certain this would work in M2TW, but I mean the equivalent of plain 0-turn recruitment time in RTW. To counterbalance this, they should have very high upkeep. This would better reflect the nature of the unit as levy/militia who are warriors willing to fight but do need to get back to their farms. I am thinking of something like recruitment cost 100, upkeep 300. This is in contrast to warrior units, who would be much more expensive to recruit but have lower upkeep, but you can't get as many of them as fast. Just an idea.

  • For the Romans, legionary cohorts should take centuries to train. In RTW it would be a simple matter of giving them a three-turn recruit or something and making them ridiculously expensive, but I don't remember how this would translate to M2TW... Auxiliary heavy infantry should be almost as good (eg legionaries just have slightly better defense/morale or something like that), but much cheaper and easier to recruit. Since people who are playing the Romans will probably prefer playing with legionary cohorts, the advantages and disadvantages should balance out and people will have armies of roughly half auxilia and half legionaries. Or something like that.

    EDORIX
    ~ ancient briton ~

    /\
    /|||| ||||\

    (dis ma house)
  • Earl Scruffles
    Legionary
    (id: generalscruff)
    posted 12 July 2011 10:52 EDT (US)     14 / 28       
    I agree, but I think, given the aim, 300 upkeep might actually not be enough.

    Under the bonnet, RTW and M2TW are almost identical, it all works out the same

    But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
    This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
    The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
    monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
    Big Red Rob
    Legionary
    (id: Feudal Principes)
    posted 12 July 2011 12:02 EDT (US)     15 / 28       
    I was going to say just that about the levies when we moved onto the subject.
    As for the Legionaries, shouldn't we make them unrecruitable, and any British auxillaries recruitable only after some time of roman rule? I'm sure we could implement that culture feature from the kingdoms campaign. The romans would have quite a few soldiers given to them from the off, and if they aren't enough to gain a sizeable foothold, better luck next time.

    Btw, there won't be anybody playing the romans, unless you mean non-campaign, they're emergent.

    [This message has been edited by Feudal Principes (edited 07-12-2011 @ 12:07 PM).]

    Earl Scruffles
    Legionary
    (id: generalscruff)
    posted 12 July 2011 12:07 EDT (US)     16 / 28       
    yes. I think that also guerilla units should be unlocked when the Romans invade as well

    But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
    This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
    The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
    monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
    Liam_the_Spartan
    Banned
    posted 12 July 2011 18:45 EDT (US)     17 / 28       
    Under the bonnet, RTW and M2TW are almost identical, it all works out the same
    Truthfully, they're not.

    I agree with Edorix' 3 turn Legionary trainning. Or even better, you know in Medieval 2 there is a limit in each city of the troops available. Like 2 are able to train now, but another will not for another 5 turns. Well we could just make it so British levies are almost regenerated almost instantly, and Legionaries take about 10 turns to replenish or something? the 10 turns could be equal to all any small reinforcements but without having to ship them.
    As for the Legionaries, shouldn't we make them unrecruitable, and any British auxillaries recruitable only after some time of roman rule?
    We do want it to be hard to kill the romans, right?
    Earl Scruffles
    Legionary
    (id: generalscruff)
    posted 12 July 2011 18:48 EDT (US)     18 / 28       
    I think that Claudius' invasion should be hard to stop, but Caesar's fairly simple to destroy

    But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
    This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
    The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
    monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
    Edorix
    High King of Britain
    posted 14 July 2011 03:41 EDT (US)     19 / 28       
    At the same time, Caesar's legionaries should actually be tougher; all of them veterans of the Gallic campaigns, all of them utterly devoted to Caesar, and the later legionaries should be less tough cos of the decadence that Tacitus and Cato and Seneca are always declaiming about.

    EDORIX
    ~ ancient briton ~

    /\
    /|||| ||||\

    (dis ma house)
    Earl Scruffles
    Legionary
    (id: generalscruff)
    posted 14 July 2011 10:43 EDT (US)     20 / 28       
    Caesar, when he invaded Britain, had more power than the Senate and the Consul, being a Pro-Consul, hailed Imperator at Alesia. Also, the Atrebates, Cantaci and Trinovantes need to be automatically at war with Caesar when he lands.

    Rome declined a fair bit during the civil wars, and the inferior troops reflect that. but there need to be more of them

    But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
    This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
    The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
    monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
    Edorix
    High King of Britain
    posted 15 July 2011 06:33 EDT (US)     21 / 28       
    the Atrebates, Cantaci and Trinovantes need to be automatically at war with Caesar when he lands.
    Wrong. The Trinovantes were Caesar's allies, and the Atrebates had nothing to do with the whole business. Plus there's no guarantee those factions will even still be around after 50-odd years of gameplay. Best just make them hostile towards him in their "core_attitudes" section (in RTW, I think it's at the bottom of descr_strat but in M2 it might have moved).

    EDORIX
    ~ ancient briton ~

    /\
    /|||| ||||\

    (dis ma house)
    Liam_the_Spartan
    Banned
    posted 15 July 2011 10:36 EDT (US)     22 / 28       
    How about we give Ceasers army experience? Like 2 silver Chevrons each. Then the later ones are just better but with little to no experience.

    We could probably get the roman units and a few british models from RTW. Maybe edit them a bit if we have the tools.

    In Shogun 2, you can accept trade from the "Nanban" which are what the Japanese called Europeans. It gives you better ports and access to gunpowder units but starts the spread of Cristianity in your lands. How about every now and again the suthern/eastern tribes get the chance to trade with the romans or a continental faction that doesn't appear in the game? Then it gives some bonuses but creates a bit of unrest due to roman culture and affects how much the Druids like you?

    The bonuses could maybe be more money. Or access to a couple of good buildings, like a "Roman port", which could upgrade armour and increase trade value, and maybe a better ship?
    Earl Scruffles
    Legionary
    (id: generalscruff)
    posted 15 July 2011 11:04 EDT (US)     23 / 28       
    The Trinovantes were Caesar's allies, and the Atrebates had nothing to do with the whole business.
    I thought that Caratacus fought against the Claudian invasion in the medway with the Catuvelluani, so I think I'm getting in a muddle between the Trinovantes and the Catuvelluani. Caesar invaded Britain partly in response to the Belgae fighting him in Gaul, and here we are taking the Belgae and putting them with the Atrebates. I do stand corrected on the Trinovantes bit, I feel a bit foolish I didn't remember the alliance.

    I don't think that is possible in the M2TW engine, sorry. nice idea though, I'll see. Perhaps we could represent the Atrebate's gallic lands with a single province over the channel, and trade with that?

    But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
    This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
    The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
    monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
    SwampRat
    M2TW Ladder Leader
    posted 19 July 2011 15:12 EDT (US)     24 / 28       
    A thought on your militia idea - the AI is awful at disbanding armies (I'm not aware of any known fix for that) which led me to a thought - could you get a script at the start of every faction's turn to have a certain chance of disbanding each militia unit if it's not in a settlement?
    To make it more predictable you could only disband on summer turns (for the harvest etc). That way you could reduce the likelihood of roaming militia armies and avoid penalising the AI.

    I don't know if it'd work, but it's a thought.
    Liam_the_Spartan
    Banned
    posted 19 July 2011 17:53 EDT (US)     25 / 28       
    I think it could work, scruffy

    you know you can get Merchants guilds yeah? We could easily change the message to "Roman trade" or "Continental trade", then just change the building that appears from a Merchants guild, to a "Trading port" (Or some similar name). It will replace the port that is already in that settlement, and instead of being able to train Merchant Cavalry Militia, it could allow trainning of... Something that is not in Britain....

    Also, how about to finnish it, once it reaches 60 AD and the game finnishes, we just create a non-stop roman onlaught? Just wave after wave of Roman legionaries. As a kind of Last-stand?
    Earl Scruffles
    Legionary
    (id: generalscruff)
    posted 19 July 2011 18:15 EDT (US)     26 / 28       
    I agree with the guild idea, and that would be doable swamprat. I don't think a roman onslaught would be good. But, when the romans invade, Celtic units should spawn in order to fight them

    But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
    This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
    The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
    monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
    Big Red Rob
    Legionary
    (id: Feudal Principes)
    posted 24 August 2011 07:06 EDT (US)     27 / 28       
    I think the roman onslaught idea is good for gameplay, not many people will play through to it at the end, so is it worth doing? I've never seen the end of turns, what happens?
    Edorix
    High King of Britain
    posted 31 October 2011 17:11 EDT (US)     28 / 28       
    Is this going anywhere Admiral? It would be a shame if it wasn't.

    EDORIX
    ~ ancient briton ~

    /\
    /|||| ||||\

    (dis ma house)
    You must be logged in to post messages.
    Please login or register

    Hop to:    

    Total War Heaven | HeavenGames