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Total War Heaven » Forums » Land of Albion: Total War » Trinovantes Faction discussion
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Topic Subject:Trinovantes Faction discussion
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 04 July 2011 14:36 EDT (US)         
I think we should start with the Trinovantes, of the Southeastern culture. This thread is for discussion of this faction.

The main unit, like the vanilla warband should be the 'Spearman Band'. This unit will have spear, javelin and shield. No armour, although torcs are a possibility and woad is a must. Clothes should be plain and earthy, no tartan. Tunic, trousers, cloak, gaiters and leather one piece sandals are to be the clothing

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
AuthorReplies:
Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 04 July 2011 15:37 EDT (US)     1 / 26       
Torcs are a big no-no for levy/peasant units. They are the mark of a warrior or chieftain.

Trinovantes - the name is British (unlike eg Regnenses which is Latin), and the first part trīno- means battle (Middle Welsh: trin). uantis I'm not so sure about... there is a modern Welsh word gwanu which means to pierce or stab - so the name Trīnouantēs means "Battle-Stabbers" or "Stabbers in Battle". Perhaps this suggests that they had a distinctive fighting style - if so we should try to reflect this in the units. Caesar recorded their name as "Trinobantes" but I have no idea what this would mean.

I don't think the name of the king of the Trinouantes in 100 BCE is known - there were no inscriptions on coins at this stage. The only known rulers are Mandubracios (c50s BCE), Aððedomāros (30s-20s BCE), and Dumnouellaunos (20s BCE to c5 CE): after that the Trinovantes were conquered by the Catuvellauni, because the next coin issue of a Catuvellauni king was minted in Camulodunon, the Trinovantian capital. Most of this is largely irrelevant for the game: however it would be nice to have Mandubracios as a 1 year old family member or something (he probably wasn't born till later, but still).

The Trinovantes should be friendly towards the Iceni and Roman factions, but bitterly opposed to the Catuvellauni. Probably worth making them start out as enemies, they seem to have been in a pretty constant state of war for 65 years at least.

Camulodunon should be the biggest settlement in Britain at the start of the game, by population and infrastructure.

Caesar commented that the Trinovantes were the most powerful tribe in Britain - probably a lie (because they were his allies, and a major excuse for invading), but a good catchphrase. I'll see if I can find it in Latin.

EDIT: Here we go.

Trinobantēs, prope firmissima eārum regiōnum ciuitas... - Caesar, BG V:20

"The Trinovantes are pretty much the strongest tribe in these parts..."

• EDORIX •
~ ancient briton ~

/\
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(dis ma house)

[This message has been edited by Edorix (edited 07-04-2011 @ 03:41 PM).]

Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 04 July 2011 16:12 EDT (US)     2 / 26       
Yes, the Trinovantes were well represented in Boudicca's rebellion, and an interesting article I read pointed out that, for the most part, the only places ever under Roman rule were the roads and the forts, as well as some large towns. All else was controlled by the tribes, who didn't adopt much of the Roman ways. I would then consider having levy units with swords, as well as the spear.

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy

[This message has been edited by Generalscruff (edited 07-04-2011 @ 04:15 PM).]

Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 04 July 2011 16:19 EDT (US)     3 / 26       
I wouldn't go that far; but the units that do have swords should have a special animation (if possible), and there should definitely be a special swordsman unit.

• EDORIX •
~ ancient briton ~

/\
/|||| ||||\

(dis ma house)
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 04 July 2011 16:27 EDT (US)     4 / 26       
that's what I meant. most units still have spears, but a 'swordsmen levy warband' unit might not go amiss

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 04 July 2011 16:31 EDT (US)     5 / 26       
That's what I meant - levy swordsmen? It's possible, but it shouldn't be uniquely Trinovantian if you do go for it.

• EDORIX •
~ ancient briton ~

/\
/|||| ||||\

(dis ma house)
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 04 July 2011 17:29 EDT (US)     6 / 26       
yes, other factions should get some, but not all.

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
GladiatorOfRome
Legionary
posted 04 July 2011 20:27 EDT (US)     7 / 26       
what kind of cavalry will they have?

Libertas dulcior merita
-Freedom is sweeter when earned
Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 05 July 2011 07:25 EDT (US)     8 / 26       
The general rule for cavalry should be a round shield, javelins and lance. Horsemen were nobles, because horses were only used for war: some of them might have a bit of chain mail, but most will just be the infantry warriors on horseback. Leather armour is a possibility: none has been found in Britain, but then, no leather has been found in Britain at all, so that could be a question of visibility. Personally I think leather armour would look awesome.

The Trinovantes will be one of the few factions who have access to helmets, but even so there should be barely any.

• EDORIX •
~ ancient briton ~

/\
/|||| ||||\

(dis ma house)
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 05 July 2011 12:04 EDT (US)     9 / 26       
That's very similar to Gaulish Cavalry, and it would appear most cavalry in the sense of fighting on horseback wore mail, and sometimes a helmet, but no other armour

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 05 July 2011 13:12 EDT (US)     10 / 26       
No it wouldn't. Finds of mail are extremely rare in Britain - there are about four - and helmets even rarer: there are exactly two.

• EDORIX •
~ ancient briton ~

/\
/|||| ||||\

(dis ma house)
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 05 July 2011 13:35 EDT (US)     11 / 26       
That's funny, I read a few Roman accounts of mail being worn by British and Gaulish horsemen.

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
GladiatorOfRome
Legionary
posted 05 July 2011 13:41 EDT (US)     12 / 26       
Britain doesnt exactly have the best environment for preserving anything

Libertas dulcior merita
-Freedom is sweeter when earned
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 05 July 2011 13:47 EDT (US)     13 / 26       
I would agree, but some places can be quite good for it

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
GladiatorOfRome
Legionary
posted 05 July 2011 13:50 EDT (US)     14 / 26       
thick mud seems very good at preserving things as long as it can stay fairly muddy

Libertas dulcior merita
-Freedom is sweeter when earned
Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 05 July 2011 15:23 EDT (US)     15 / 26       
That's funny, I read a few Roman accounts of mail being worn by British and Gaulish horsemen.
Gaulish, yes. Quite a lot of chainmail has turned up in Gaul. Britain... not much. It's possible that more was used at the time but was recycled by its owners.

Britain's environment is not good for preserving organic matter, because it needs to be either very dry or very wet. There are a few spots though: the Fens are excellent, and maritime archaeology is allowing us to dredge up bits of wood from places like the Solent. then there's Lindow Man of course from the Cheshire bog. What much of Britain is quite good for is preserving bones. Highly acidic soils tend to destroy them.

• EDORIX •
~ ancient briton ~

/\
/|||| ||||\

(dis ma house)
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 05 July 2011 16:03 EDT (US)     16 / 26       
Mail was quite difficult to manufacture, and even into the High Middle Ages, mail shirts were handed down from father to son and the like, so I consider this quite likely

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
GladiatorOfRome
Legionary
posted 05 July 2011 16:46 EDT (US)     17 / 26       
What would the faction colors be?

Libertas dulcior merita
-Freedom is sweeter when earned
Big Red Rob
Legionary
(id: Feudal Principes)
posted 06 July 2011 02:41 EDT (US)     18 / 26       
Are we going for faction colours all over the place, like in vanilla games, or more realistic browns and drab greens with a smattering of colour that is seen in the likes of rtr and rs? I say more natural colours.
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 06 July 2011 10:47 EDT (US)     19 / 26       
I concur, but each one should be obviously different from the others. This should be achieved by the motif and patterns than the colours

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
Big Red Rob
Legionary
(id: Feudal Principes)
posted 06 July 2011 12:47 EDT (US)     20 / 26       
So the rarity of helmets and mail, should that be represented by a small unit of heavy cavalry that is quite expensive?
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 06 July 2011 13:48 EDT (US)     21 / 26       
Heavy cavalry would have mail, but most cavalry will be light cav with some throwing spears, so, sort of, yes

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
GladiatorOfRome
Legionary
posted 06 July 2011 15:58 EDT (US)     22 / 26       
What about the symbol for the Trinovantes? on many of there coins they have a horse

Libertas dulcior merita
-Freedom is sweeter when earned
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 07 July 2011 14:52 EDT (US)     23 / 26       
Then, perhaps a horse's head? or a horse's head and crossed swords?

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
Big Red Rob
Legionary
(id: Feudal Principes)
posted 07 July 2011 15:32 EDT (US)     24 / 26       
I think the horse with crossed swords would be good as it would free up a logo of simply a horse for another faction.

[This message has been edited by Feudal Principes (edited 07-07-2011 @ 03:34 PM).]

Edorix
High King of Britain
posted 08 July 2011 13:24 EDT (US)     25 / 26       
Every single coin-minting tribe had horses on their coins at some stage...

• EDORIX •
~ ancient briton ~

/\
/|||| ||||\

(dis ma house)
Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)
posted 08 July 2011 17:02 EDT (US)     26 / 26       
but, not all need have horses on logos, we could use other symbols, like I believe the Wessex Wyvern had Celtic origins

But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy
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