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Total War Heaven » Forums » Rome II Total War Intro Forum » Looking Closer at R2TW
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Topic Subject:Looking Closer at R2TW
Punic Hebil
Centurion
(id: Punic Hoplite)
posted 03 July 2012 00:56 EDT (US)         
Something this long requires a topic of its own.


The two picture I'm talking about.
Street Fight
Naval


Also a disclaimer. The newest TW game I own and have played is Medieval 2. I am aware of some of the features of later titles but am probably unaware of them all. Please forgive me.


Now, for the first picture I will look at the one listed first, which depicts the actual street fighting.

Faction Colors are still here, Romans get the Caesar Red, while Carthaginians have their white. When looking away from us the Romans (in this light) seem to be wearing black, and Carthage is still in white. Obviously this is easy to see. But bear this in mind. When looking about the picture, you can get a sense that this picture is using the equivalent of Huge in Rome 1. Looking at the Carthaginian units, there are around 17 visible in this area. Now to the Romans, there are around 15 visible (give or take one or two) units fighting in this area alone. My guess is that there are a few more hidden amongst the buildings that are in our line of sight. This is not counting the ships in the harbor, which are also under the user's command. If people want I can make a picture outlining where I see them all.

But then looking to the second picture, 25 ships are easily made out, with more again, probably out of view. 12 of these ships are larger than the others, and are triremes, with another 12 bireme, and one that is too hard to make out, but would bet it is a bireme. The triremes are the ones with the sail fixture in the center as well as the 'point' of the boat for less boat savvy readers, while the biremes are smaller, and look more packed. My bet is that the triremes are in groups of 3, while biremes are in groups of 3 as well. If we go with those numbers as a unit, that means the ships make up 8 more unit lots. Add this with the 15 land units, that is more than 20. Now either there will be one unit bar for naval units and another for land, or (and is more probable) when the men disembark from their ships, the ship is no longer considered a unit to be commanded, and them men simply take that unit slot up themselves. So it doesn't look like we can command more than 20 units on the battlefield, though obviously it isn't put up to hard evidence yet.


Back to the fighting picture though. Many of you noticed the elephants in the center left part of the picture. But how many saw the other unit of elephants charging down the Romans from a side street in the middle right part of the picture? Or how about the two units of onager-type artillery just behind the elephants on the left? And given that the near misses of the naval picture are, well, near misses, it appears that artillery isn't as crappy as it was in Rome 1. I am sure those who have played know that your own onagers were as likely to kill your general as the enemy's was, or even more so. So that is good. There are two units of onagers, with three catapults each. Or who noticed the lone Carthaginian (due to the white on the side) horse standing with no rider behind the fighting at the bottom of the screen by the corner? I feel like the ability to dismount and fight was already implemented in previous titles, but to me it's a great addition. I know many have seen the Roman archers in the tower and roof near the foreground, peppering away at the Carthaginians.

And how many of you truly understand how bloody large this map is? To give you scope, notice that there is a statue in the square area that appears to be throwing something, even though there is nothing in his hand. The big thing on the pedestal. Now, look at the Naval picture again. Look at the tower on the right side of the harbor opening, then slightly to the right of the tower where there are the 4 'supports' at the base of the wall (the things that are jutting out and are slanting against the wall). Find the fourth support from the tower, and slowly move your eye upwards. See him? If you hit white buildings you've gone too high. Rep to the first people to find the statue, as well as the first person to find the tower the Roman archers are/will be in!

That's all I have for that first picture. Though I should mention that the Roman ships that landed their troops in the harbor are landing on the far side (away from the action). Perhaps one can choose? Maybe capture the main port area with troops is part of another way to win the siege? Speculation my friends!



Now for the second picture, which we've touched on. Apart from the ships, the near-misses, the fireballs in the sky heading towards Carthage and the seemingly misplaced Egyptian obelisk on the far left side of the picture, what is there to notice? Well, there are ready made fences/walls on the beach made of wood. I want to say these are for your men, as they are not complete around the enemy's walls, but I could be wrong. Could funnel your troops into a necessary firing line before the safety of the wall is reached. I also notice that here and there, platforms are jutting out of the wall (but are still part of it). The most obvious answer is that it is there so archers can get your men who hide against your walls, thinking it is safe. But I want to know if you could place siege equipment, like the onagers from before, onto the wall. They would stay there permanently for the duration of the battle, but I've always wanted more firepower on the walls, blasting away at the encroaching enemy. Another thing I noticed on the beach area, is a gate where the defenders can come out of and attack the disembarking troops. Perhaps a weak point where a ram could open the way for you? And if you look between the two towers on the left, there is a large, what appears to be wooden, structure against the wall. Perhaps a siege tower that burnt down? It certainly isn't at the walls height.

Now, to mention something I just noticed about the ships. The triremes get the siege equipment on them, though not all triremes get them. I noticed, out of the ones clearest (and nearest) to the camera, only 5 have the catapults (of which there are two per ship), while 3 do not and another two others are too hard to make out. Just putting it out there.

Moving past the initial defenses, two walls are clearly visible, with another third, at the very top, very probable. The walls remind me of the ones that were in Medieval 2, though if CA brings back (or continuing?) the Military Cities - Economic Cities choice for settlements, why would Carthage get three defenses? Are there going to be custom cities for special cities like Rome, Carthage, Alexandria, Antioch and such? With the rest of the minor settlements getting a standard layout?


That's all I've noticed really. Too right currently to look any deeper.

I am the Carthaginian who became an angel, and surrendered his wings for a life on the sea of battle.

My magic screen is constantly bombarded with nubile young things eager to please these old eyes. This truly is a wonderful period in which to exist! - Terikel the Deflowerer
AuthorReplies:
Kilos of Thermon
Legionary
posted 03 July 2012 02:30 EDT (US)     1 / 2       
Perhaps cities are going to have more than just one set of walls. This is historically accurate, and it adds a deeper gameplay challenge as well.

The statue in the plaza makes me laugh for some reason. I suppose it reminds me of when Saddam's statue was torn down.

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Cattle die, kinsmen die, the self must also die. I know one thing that never dies: the fate of the honored dead. Hávamál, Gestaţáttr, #77.
Scipii
TWH Seraph
posted 03 July 2012 02:38 EDT (US)     2 / 2       
First up, moved to our new Rome II forums now that they exist.

Now on to the topic, since the latest Total War game you have played is Medieval 2: Total War you are excused for not knowing that Shogun 2's Fall of the Samurai expansion doubled the number of controllable units from 20 up to 40. Creative Assembly have also mentioned that they want to increase the scale of the game while keeping the number of units controlled the same. We'll have anywhere up to 40 units to control but instead of micromanaging individual cohorts like previous it sounds like it will be abstracted up to something larger, which explains the emphasis on Legions

A prime example being ships if they are in multi-ship units, since Empire: Total War introduced naval combat they have been single ship units. Although since Empire: Total War they had also been reducing the number of ship allowed in naval battles due to micromanagement overload. On huge naval unit sizes a naval fleet could only hold up to 10 ships maximum, if I recall my Shogun 2 experiences correctly.
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