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Topic Subject:The Quick Question Thread
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Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 23 January 2007 09:42 EDT (US)         
I decided we needed one of these.

The purpose of this thread is for little questions that have objective answers, and don't merit their own thread. For example, a good question you might ask here is "Who was the emperor who built the Colosseum?" or "Where can I find a description of the Battle of Alesia?". You can also use this if you are having trouble finding previous discussions in this forum. For example, you might ask "Where can I find a detailed description of the mechanics of a corpse bridge?", which would receive an answer.

This thread is not for introducing discussion topics. You do not ask "So, who was better. Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great?". Think of it as the AH equivalent of the Roman Party thread but do not spam.

If your query starts to get replies beyond two or three posts, then consider starting a specific thread if it looks set to run. If it gets to six or seven posts, start a specific thread on it.

This forum has needed this for a while. Please obey the rules.


"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry

[This message has been edited by Legio Yow (edited 01-23-2007 @ 05:15 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
D Furius Venator
HG Alumnus
posted 03 February 2007 05:53 EDT (US)     26 / 188       

Quote:

Are there any historical references of cavalry charging head-on into a formation of infantry carrying 16-foot pikes? If so, what happened? Any links?

No. Pike formations were sometimes charged by cavalry (Bannockburn for instance) but they could not hit home unless the pikes fled. At Bannockburn the English horse were reduced to throwing maces and swords at the Scots in the hope of forcing a gap.

Alexander took the Sacred Band in their flank that had exposed by Phillip's masterful fighting retreat.


Civile! Si ergo fortibusis in ero.
Wassis inem causan dux?
Gnossis vile demsis trux!

I suggest that before badgering for a translation you take the time to read it out loud. Thankyou.
Enkidu of Uruk
Legionary
(id: thekid951)
posted 03 February 2007 06:02 EDT (US)     27 / 188       
Was it true that Germans used phalanx, like in rome : total war?
DominicusUltimus
Legate
posted 03 February 2007 06:07 EDT (US)     28 / 188       
They probably had tight shield wall-like formation that was similar to the Greek phalanx as in they used mass to push back or break through enemies, but they didn't have anything like the Macedonian style phalanx.

That's from what I know, but I'm no expert.


"Life is more fun when you are insane. Just let go occasionally".- yakcamkir 12:14
"It is not numbers, but vision that wins wars." - Antiochus VII Sidetes
"My magic screen is constantly bombarded with nubile young things eager to please these old eyes. This truly is a wonderful period in which to exist! - Terikel Grayhair
Angel of Total War: Rome II Heaven and the Total War: Attila Forums
D Furius Venator
HG Alumnus
posted 03 February 2007 06:52 EDT (US)     29 / 188       
There is a tendency to say that all troops armed with spear and shield fought as a phalanx. That is not the case. But the Helvetii seem to have done so, or at least behind a 'shield wall', which is not quite the same thing. Caesar specifically states that their shields overlapped (I 25). They did not do so exclusively as they are later described as throwing spears and javelins. Again, against Ariovistus, he speaks of a 'wall of shields'. But against that being a phalanx like the Greeks is the fact that they charged rapidly (too quick for the Romans to throw their pila).

Personally I'd prefer to use phalanx to describe Greek and Macedonian formations and shield wall, schiltrom, pike block or similar for later troops who fought with spears and shield or pike.


Civile! Si ergo fortibusis in ero.
Wassis inem causan dux?
Gnossis vile demsis trux!

I suggest that before badgering for a translation you take the time to read it out loud. Thankyou.
TotalWarFanatic
Legionary
posted 03 February 2007 07:09 EDT (US)     30 / 188       

Quote:

Pike formations were sometimes charged by cavalry (Bannockburn for instance)


Ah yes, I forgot. The English charged their men-at-arms and knights head on into Scottish pikemen several times. They were slaughtered.

EDIT: Hannibal's armies killed so many Romans in ambushes that it begs the question, did the Romans deploy scouts? It seems like so much could be avoided if you merely sent a few men around to inspect nearby forests.


Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
I've put most of my units/skins and ss of them on my new site!:
http://totalwarfantic.tripod.com/
Proud winner of most underrated forumer award!

[This message has been edited by TotalWarFanatic (edited 02-03-2007 @ 07:13 AM).]

D Furius Venator
HG Alumnus
posted 03 February 2007 07:12 EDT (US)     31 / 188       
Yes but they could not charge home. Horses will only collide with pointy objects by accident. Sometimes (rarely) this makes a breach in the formation into which the cavalry can penetrate. More usually when the infantry fail to flee, the horse slow to a halt and fence at the spears or throw things.

Civile! Si ergo fortibusis in ero.
Wassis inem causan dux?
Gnossis vile demsis trux!

I suggest that before badgering for a translation you take the time to read it out loud. Thankyou.
MisplacedPope
Legionary
(id: misplacedgeneral)
posted 05 February 2007 18:57 EDT (US)     32 / 188       
When and who were involved in the whole Embassy affair where the Roman drew the circle around the Seluakid king, I can't remember.

"It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good." Jack Nicholson
Andariel
Banned
posted 05 February 2007 19:31 EDT (US)     33 / 188       
I'd search that out for you, because it's mentioned humorously in "The First Man in Rome", but that book is currently buried underneath "The Light Bearer", "A Creed for the Third Millenium", "Dracula", "Interview with the Vampire", and "The Phantom of the Opera" atop a tower of books some three feet high atop a book case some three inches taller than me or so

I have a question of my own. If there are no U's in ancient Greek like in "Antigonus" (properly Antigonos) then what replaces the U's in names like Eumenes, Eurydice, Seleukos, etc. Or is there indeed a U in ancient Greek but just isn't used at the end of names like Kleitos which have mysteriously been latinized as Cleitus?

Barbarian_Prince
Legionary
posted 05 February 2007 19:40 EDT (US)     34 / 188       

Quote:

When and who were involved in the whole Embassy affair where the Roman drew the circle around the Seluakid king, I can't remember.


I don't remember when, but the Roman involved in this matter was Gaius Popillius Laenas. The Seleucid King was Antiochus IV.

"It is a lovely thing to live with courage and to die leaving behind an everlasting renown." - ALEXANDER THE GREAT
MisplacedPope
Legionary
(id: misplacedgeneral)
posted 05 February 2007 19:46 EDT (US)     35 / 188       
Thank you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_Popillius_Laenas

"It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good." Jack Nicholson
Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 05 February 2007 19:50 EDT (US)     36 / 188       
That story is an excellent demonstration about how one many flanked by six men carrying bundles of rods lashed together with a cord can be more powerful than an army. Marius did something like that as well, and he didn't even have the bundles of sticks to help him.

"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry
MisplacedPope
Legionary
(id: misplacedgeneral)
posted 05 February 2007 20:28 EDT (US)     37 / 188       
I think it is one of the greatest examples of the Roman mindset and self-confidence.

"It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good." Jack Nicholson
Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 06 February 2007 11:02 EDT (US)     38 / 188       
It also shows that non-Romans tended to agree with that confidence.

"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry
D Furius Venator
HG Alumnus
posted 06 February 2007 11:59 EDT (US)     39 / 188       
Andariel:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upsilon

Civile! Si ergo fortibusis in ero.
Wassis inem causan dux?
Gnossis vile demsis trux!

I suggest that before badgering for a translation you take the time to read it out loud. Thankyou.
AugustusCurly
Legionary
posted 06 February 2007 17:46 EDT (US)     40 / 188       
I have a question, where were the Angles (as in Anglo-Saxons) from? I know the Saxons were from northern Germany/Southern Denmark (a Scandinavian-German mix?), but I couldn't find the Angles. I tried a search, but came up with lots of misspelled angels (of religious fame).

(\__/)Gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math
(O.o )a Kilometre is whats known in American as "too far to walk", and a litre is known as "too much beer for one man".-Bored Scotsman
( >< )Beer brands are the power ranger action figures for adults.-Angelo the Sailor
Easter is indeed very commercial. But hey, that's what keeps the economy going. Discussion is useless, chocolate eggs are delicious. Voila.-TheKid951
Primus Pilus
Legionary
posted 07 February 2007 03:40 EDT (US)     41 / 188       
The Angles are from the area around Schleswig, which is basically pretty much the area of Northern Germany ( around Flensburg) and bordering areas of Holstein and southern Denmark. There are still quite a few places and villages/town who bear resemblances in name, such as "Geltingen-Angeln", for example.

"I see no difference between war and terrorism. Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich."

Sir Peter Ustinov

Enkidu of Uruk
Legionary
(id: thekid951)
posted 07 February 2007 14:32 EDT (US)     42 / 188       
How is 'seleucid' as in 'Seleucid Empire' pronounced? Also please give the eventual correction of spelling as I might be wrong. Thx

TotalWarFanatic
Legionary
posted 07 February 2007 16:13 EDT (US)     43 / 188       
sel-oo-sid

Where would warriors put their gear prior to a battle? You can't leave a camp up, and obviously a legionary, for example, couldn't carry a forked stick with him into battle. Would they pile it up and just gather it after the battle if they survived? How would they ensure people don't take their stuff?
Silly question I guess, but I've been pondering it for a while.


Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
It would be a violation of my code as a gentleman to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.-Veeblefester
Ego is the anesthetic for the pain of stupidity.-me A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
I've put most of my units/skins and ss of them on my new site!:
http://totalwarfantic.tripod.com/
Proud winner of most underrated forumer award!
D Furius Venator
HG Alumnus
posted 07 February 2007 16:19 EDT (US)     44 / 188       
All ancient armies had large numbers of soldier's servants. Caesar's men had a slave each by the end of the Gallic Wars, but the official complement (which must often have been exceeded) was 1 servant for 8 or so men (a mess tent). In addition, the Roman army had slaves/servants of its own, quite apart from the personal attendents of the soldiers. These men wore helmets and performed many duties including foraging etc.

Civile! Si ergo fortibusis in ero.
Wassis inem causan dux?
Gnossis vile demsis trux!

I suggest that before badgering for a translation you take the time to read it out loud. Thankyou.
AugustusCurly
Legionary
posted 09 February 2007 21:45 EDT (US)     45 / 188       
Did The Byzantine Empire's armies really march for "the senate and people of Rome" all the way up until it was sacked? I know empires have a way of saying more than they mean, but that seems just laughable! 1000 years after Rome was sacked and they still say it?

(\__/)Gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math
(O.o )a Kilometre is whats known in American as "too far to walk", and a litre is known as "too much beer for one man".-Bored Scotsman
( >< )Beer brands are the power ranger action figures for adults.-Angelo the Sailor
Easter is indeed very commercial. But hey, that's what keeps the economy going. Discussion is useless, chocolate eggs are delicious. Voila.-TheKid951
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 09 February 2007 21:52 EDT (US)     46 / 188       
IF they did say it, they would have said it in Greek.
They did refer to themselves as Romanoi though.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

Porphyrogenitus
Legionary
posted 10 February 2007 00:41 EDT (US)     47 / 188       
From what I can tell, as early as the fifth century or so the emphasis had shifted away from the political over to the religious, as far as what the armies were marching for. Take the traditional battle cry: Nobiscum. Meaning "With Us," and short for "God With Us (Deus Nobiscum), it has nothing to do with the emperor, the Empire, or anything Roman other than Christianity.

However, a battle cry proves only a little, if anything. The fact remains that the Senate as an institution survived until the end. Constantinople was founded as New Rome, with its own Senate equal to that of Old Rome. Even if Old Rome fell out of the Empire's control, still New Rome and the Senate resident there remained firmly in Imperial control until the Fourth Crusade, when the government went into a short period of exile before reclaiming New Rome, only to lose it again permanently in 1453. The Senate remained part of the three-part elevation of an emperor: the army, the people of Constantinople, and the Senate all (theoretically) had to agree on a nominee before he could become emperor.

Regarding the question about baggage. My understanding is that most baggage would be left in the camp during a battle. Hence the popularity of sacking the enemy camp (an event that lost quite a few battles for the side that held an initial advantage). The Romans were unique (as far as I can tell, at least) in making it a regular practice to fortify the camp, and the various camp followers and servants (the Byzantine cavarly armies had roughly a 4:1 soldier:servant ratio, IIRC) would have contributed to the defense of the camp and thus of the baggage.

I always pronounced Seleucid like se-ley-oo-sid or se-ley-oo-kid, depending on if I want to make the c into a hard one or leave it soft.


0 Lord, save thy people and bless thine inheritance:
To our Rulers grant victories over the barbarians,
And by thy Cross protect thine own Estate.

- Prayer on the Feast of the Elevation of the Cross (September 14), established by Heraclius, Basileus (610-41), after recovering the True Cross from its captivity by the Persians and the utter defeat of the Sassanians by Roman arms.

Vance1
Legionary
posted 10 February 2007 01:47 EDT (US)     48 / 188       
From merriam-webster, Seleucus is pronounced with a hard 'c' as in 'crow', so it would be Sel-oocus. However merriam also pronounces Seleucid with a soft 'c' as in 'ice'. I'm not sure if it's relying on English grammar or that's how it was actually said.
Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)
posted 10 February 2007 02:07 EDT (US)     49 / 188       
Relying on English grammar. English has hard "c"s before o, a, and u and a soft "c" before i and e.

Seleucus is better transliterated from Greek into Seleukos. However, we use his Latin name as opposed a Greek transliteration.


I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin
Damascus
Legionary
posted 14 February 2007 22:24 EDT (US)     50 / 188       
I have a question...

I was reading How to Lose a Battle the other day and it said that during the march towards the Horns of Hattin, horse archers harassed them the whole way. I have no problem with that, but he then says that the arrows did nothing but force the Christians to wear armor.

Yet the same book and on Wikipedia, during the Battle of Carrhae, Parthian horse archers were able to penetrate Roman armor.

Was there a regression in the power of bows within the space of a millenium? Or did the author simply get it wrong? In the biography he (Bill Fawcett) is not noted as having any historical education, so I am inclined to go with the second explanation.


The force is like duct tape: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together.
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