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Topic Subject:The Quick Question Thread
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Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 23 January 2007 09:42 EDT (US)         
I decided we needed one of these.

The purpose of this thread is for little questions that have objective answers, and don't merit their own thread. For example, a good question you might ask here is "Who was the emperor who built the Colosseum?" or "Where can I find a description of the Battle of Alesia?". You can also use this if you are having trouble finding previous discussions in this forum. For example, you might ask "Where can I find a detailed description of the mechanics of a corpse bridge?", which would receive an answer.

This thread is not for introducing discussion topics. You do not ask "So, who was better. Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great?". Think of it as the AH equivalent of the Roman Party thread but do not spam.

If your query starts to get replies beyond two or three posts, then consider starting a specific thread if it looks set to run. If it gets to six or seven posts, start a specific thread on it.

This forum has needed this for a while. Please obey the rules.


"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry

[This message has been edited by Legio Yow (edited 01-23-2007 @ 05:15 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
MisplacedPope
Legionary
(id: misplacedgeneral)
posted 15 February 2007 05:55 EDT (US)     51 / 188       
Are you sure about the Parthians? IIRC, most Roman injuries from arrows were on the limbs.

"It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good." Jack Nicholson
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 15 February 2007 06:28 EDT (US)     52 / 188       
Armour technology improved considerably in that time.
Roman armour did not cover the entire body.

The Christians being forced to wear armour on the march had a part to play in the eventual defeat as they virtually roasted inside the armour and their water supplies were low.


-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

Damascus
Legionary
posted 15 February 2007 10:47 EDT (US)     53 / 188       
It says on Wikipedia that they could pierce armor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_carrhae

Anyways, thanks for clearing that up for me.

fixed the link - DFV


The force is like duct tape: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together.

[This message has been edited by D Furius Venator (edited 02-15-2007 @ 11:41 AM).]

lmao
Legionary
posted 15 February 2007 11:46 EDT (US)     54 / 188       
There's an annoying myth about the ability of arrows to penetrate armour, but seriously I have here a Moslem source describing Christian soldiers keeping a perfect march going while have anywhere from one to ten arrows sticking out of them.

Imagination is more important than knowledge - Einstein
Porphyrogenitus
Legionary
posted 15 February 2007 12:51 EDT (US)     55 / 188       
My understanding is that typically a Roman infantryman from the classical legions would have only a single layer of armor (more if an officer, probably), and soldiers from the middle and rear ranks might not have nearly as much armor as those in the front ranks. Thus, a powerful enough bow might very well have been able to punch through armor at a close enough range (say, 150 yards or less for a strong composite bow wielded properly). Also, it would undoubtedly matter whether the soldier was wearing lorica hamata, lorica segmentata, or lorica squamata.

The crusaders, however, would likely have been wearing double- or triple-mail over a padded coat. Combined with the fact that Persian inspired archery tended to be faster but weaker than Steppe style archery, and I am more than willing to believe that a crusader knight could easily have been walking around unhurt while ten or more arrows were stuck in his mail armor.

The key is in the weight of the armor. A legoinnaire would be an infantryman, carrying a heavy pack and a massive shield. A crusader knight would be a cavalryman, with his baggage carried by servants and a rather smaller shield (at most a kite shield, more likely something smaller). That means that for the same or even slightly smaller amount of personally carried weight, much of it alleviated by riding a horse, a knight could have far heavier armor than a legionnaire. Having double- or triple-mail (there is some debate about just what those are: one side thinks they were layers of mail, while the other thinks they were tighter weaves of a single layer of mail; in either case, the armor would be heavier and far more protective than a single layer of lorica hamata style mail) would render the knight essentially invulnerable to the (only moderately powerful) archery of the Arabs. His horse, on the other hand, would be another matter. At the time of the earlier crusades many knights would have had unarmored or only lightly armored horses, and many of their enemies exploited that fact to devestating effect.


0 Lord, save thy people and bless thine inheritance:
To our Rulers grant victories over the barbarians,
And by thy Cross protect thine own Estate.

- Prayer on the Feast of the Elevation of the Cross (September 14), established by Heraclius, Basileus (610-41), after recovering the True Cross from its captivity by the Persians and the utter defeat of the Sassanians by Roman arms.

D Furius Venator
HG Alumnus
posted 15 February 2007 13:04 EDT (US)     56 / 188       
The legions at Carrhae would have been wearing the same sort of armour universally, the Roman 'chain shirt'. As you say, much less effective than the layered armour of the Franks. Nonetheless, fatalities caused by the missile storm at Carrhae were few. Look at Plutarch's comments. The Romans had plenty of wounded: but these were mainly wounds to the limbs. The arrows demoralised the Romans and wounded many - and these wounded were abandoned as the Romans retreated. But the real disaster was caused by Crassus' moral collapse - both during and after the battle proper - not by Parthian arrows. The Romans campaigned very effectively against the Parthians subsequent to Carrhae and ten thousand men marched out in good order from Crassus' debacle.

Civile! Si ergo fortibusis in ero.
Wassis inem causan dux?
Gnossis vile demsis trux!

I suggest that before badgering for a translation you take the time to read it out loud. Thankyou.
AugustusCurly
Legionary
posted 15 February 2007 18:16 EDT (US)     57 / 188       
Question:
The battle of Thermopylae has sometimes been called the last stand of 300, but:
a.) I just read that there were also 700 Thespians (actors fighting with their scripts? Just kidding) with them, so more like the stand of 1000 (though some of the Thespians surrendered, so maybe more like 700 or so), is this true?
b.) Every Spartan soldier was supposed to have a lot of helot slaves to carry around all their armor and stuff, did they let these guys go? Or did they stay and fight to the death, or until all the Spartans were dead?
c.) I also read in a book I just finished (the History of the Universe or something, I know it was part one) that the other Greeks may not have been going away but back to out-flank the Persian out-flanking move. Is this true?

Has anyone else heard of these things or can anyone tell me I'm right/wrong/purple?


(\__/)Gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math
(O.o )a Kilometre is whats known in American as "too far to walk", and a litre is known as "too much beer for one man".-Bored Scotsman
( >< )Beer brands are the power ranger action figures for adults.-Angelo the Sailor
Easter is indeed very commercial. But hey, that's what keeps the economy going. Discussion is useless, chocolate eggs are delicious. Voila.-TheKid951

[This message has been edited by AugustusCurly (edited 02-15-2007 @ 06:18 PM).]

Carthage
Legionary
posted 16 February 2007 04:32 EDT (US)     58 / 188       
It's true that 700 Thespians stayed with the Spartans, there were also some other Greek allies that stayed with them but i'm not sure how many around 500 I think.

Carthage
And beyond, green fields under a swift sunrise
Oh well, thats not so bad, is it?
No, no it's not

Proud joint winner of the M2TWH Saladin award
Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 11 March 2007 10:27 EDT (US)     59 / 188       
I have several busts that need identification. Should I post them here or in Baths?

"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry
D Furius Venator
HG Alumnus
posted 11 March 2007 10:38 EDT (US)     60 / 188       
That entirely depends by what you mean by 'bust'. Assuming you mean what I think you mean, post them here (but in their own thread).

Civile! Si ergo fortibusis in ero.
Wassis inem causan dux?
Gnossis vile demsis trux!

I suggest that before badgering for a translation you take the time to read it out loud. Thankyou.
Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 11 March 2007 11:00 EDT (US)     61 / 188       
And here I was expecting misplaced to make that joke.

"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry
Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)
posted 11 March 2007 13:33 EDT (US)     62 / 188       
And assuming otherwise, I'm sure Furius and the rest of us wouldn't mind you looking up our e-mail accounts.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin
MEGAS_ALEXANDROS
Legionary
posted 11 March 2007 14:17 EDT (US)     63 / 188       
Looking all this Thermopylae and the matrix style of the 300 movie i cant but recall Leonidas' answer when asked to surrender his arms:

Molon Lave = Come'n get 'em!

Aint that a badass answer or what!?


My son ask for another Kingdom equal to thyself for Macedonia is too small for thee!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip II of Macedon towards his son Alexander the Great
Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 11 March 2007 14:21 EDT (US)     64 / 188       
I'm trying to figure out a more efficient method than uploading each and every one. Any ideas? Like is there a more effective method than photobucket, or best of all, can I upload directly with Adobe?

"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry
Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 11 March 2007 20:57 EDT (US)     65 / 188       
I have to say something about the famed Spartan wit: Looking at Spartan "wit", it is actually very unwitty. Most of the quotes are pretty much "Nuh uh, and you're stupid". Cicero alone supplied more wit than the entire Spartan state.

It's a bit like how Churchill's "I'm drunk, but you're ugly" isn't quite as good on examination as on first blush (His "If I was your husband, I'd drink it" is far wittier).


"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry
MisplacedPope
Legionary
(id: misplacedgeneral)
posted 11 March 2007 21:05 EDT (US)     66 / 188       
Cicero wasn't as witty as many others. I would say Cleomenes II was far more witty than Cicero.

"It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good." Jack Nicholson
Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 11 March 2007 21:09 EDT (US)     67 / 188       
Then I am sure he will have a nice home in the Classical Quips thread, hint hint.

"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry
MisplacedPope
Legionary
(id: misplacedgeneral)
posted 11 March 2007 21:14 EDT (US)     68 / 188       
My first post had numerous quotes from him! You just never accepted none, you bum.

I was thinking of posting "Live like Crassus, build like Lucullus, talk like Cato" but I am unsure of whether it was Cato himself or some Anaeus fellow (which Plutartch suggest) said it.


"It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good." Jack Nicholson
Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 11 March 2007 21:39 EDT (US)     69 / 188       
That's an odd thing to say. Cato was an energetic speaker, and the weight of his enormous dignitas made him listened to, but he pales in comparison to, say Caesar, and fades entirely when held up to Cicero.

"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry
MisplacedPope
Legionary
(id: misplacedgeneral)
posted 11 March 2007 21:48 EDT (US)     70 / 188       
You never heard that quote?

basically, some one was up on the Rostra talking about how frugal and stoic he was, basically he was bullshitting every one, because, as the saying goes, he lived like Crassus and Lucullus but tried to speak like Cato (well known for his stoic beliefs and frgality)


"It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good." Jack Nicholson
BeerMatt
Legionary
(id: Olondi)
posted 12 March 2007 07:37 EDT (US)     71 / 188       

Quote:

My question, however, is this: What are the chances of rediscovering lost works in this day and age? Is there a possibility that is some archeological dig, we might find a chest that has Sulla's memoirs (I remember that several letters from Roman soldiers were found in a dig not too long ago)? Or perhaps a work of Diogenes is sitting in some mosque gathering dust?

In short, is there any hope?

I think the chances for something significant being found in a library are fairly high. There are scrolls and tablets being found in caves in the Middle East fairly regularly as well.

Personally, I find the wooden tablets found along Hadrians Wall to be most exciting. This was the stuff of day-to-day Roman life, written by everyday people, not the Roman equivalent of a journalist.

In answer to the Armour topic: wasn't there an improvement in the quality of steel used in Medieval times, compared with Roman bronze, iron and early steel?


-+- Non sequiturs and weak puns a speciality -+-

[This message has been edited by Olondi (edited 03-12-2007 @ 07:38 AM).]

von Nelson
Legionary
(id: General_Nelson)
posted 14 March 2007 04:19 EDT (US)     72 / 188       
Does anyone have any good links describing artifacts found in either Masada or Persepolis? The Oriental Department of the Univesity of Chicago have a wealth of artifacts, but without descriptions they are almost useless to me in the current context, so please no one give me that.

Thanks, I guess.


< Jarrod Nelson>
Nelson looks good in his pics - Gaurdian_112
Wow, Nelson's awfully cute... - HP Lovesauce
Thanks for ruining something that I've waited over 6 years for. - Redneck93
It might be a bit of an odd moment to say so, but I still think Nelson's smile is awesome. - Hnossa
THIS SIGNATURE IS A TESTAMENT TO MY VANITY
Legio Yow
Legionary
posted 23 March 2007 18:59 EDT (US)     73 / 188       
There have been several threads for purely objective questions. I am refreshing this thread so people can remember it exists.

"That which we call a nose can still smell!"
-Reduced Shakespeare Company

"Abroad, French transit workers attempt to end a strike, only to discover that they have forgotten how to operate the trains. Everybody enjoys a hearty laugh and returns to the café." -Dave Barry
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 24 March 2007 17:25 EDT (US)     74 / 188       
It's worth stickying in fact

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

AugustusCurly
Legionary
posted 24 March 2007 17:51 EDT (US)     75 / 188       
Did the guy who yelled "My kingdom for a horse" (whay's his name?) ever get that horse?

(\__/)Gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math
(O.o )a Kilometre is whats known in American as "too far to walk", and a litre is known as "too much beer for one man".-Bored Scotsman
( >< )Beer brands are the power ranger action figures for adults.-Angelo the Sailor
Easter is indeed very commercial. But hey, that's what keeps the economy going. Discussion is useless, chocolate eggs are delicious. Voila.-TheKid951
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