Keep in mind one thing about Macedonian phalanxes: They are inferior to yours man for man, but not spear for spear. That means that while they have much longer spears than you do, if you flank them in a melee with another unit of infantry, (even Hoplites charging with swords will do) they will fall pretty easily. Your phalanxes have shorter spears, but are much more hardy than their Macedonian counterparts. In fact, a unit of Armoured Hoplites would take on Royal Pikemen, Phalanx Pikemen, and, of course, Levy Pikemen. Your cheap Greek Cavalry will come in handy, and pretty fast, as you only need a first tier stables to produce them. They are quick and ideal for flanking that soft Macedonian arse. As for Macedonian cavalry - don't attempt to combat these with your own horsemen. Use your phalanxes against them. As phalanxes are the majority of your armies and specialty as a Greek commander, you should have plenty of them to stomp both cavalry and infantry in any one time. Order your phalangites to attack oncoming flanker cavalry to switch their spears to face the horsemen, and watch the slaughter. Heavy Peltasts are also good fighters on the flanks, employ what ou have to destroy the Macedonian phalanxes quickly by flanking maneuvers. Never forget that you can always get your men out of phalanx formation if you want them to run and move around faster. Never forget to switch them back to phalanx in melee, either

It seems that your tactic worked. But I got another question. What should I do in the beginning?
Should I take athens and corinth? or should I wait and wut bout Syracuse?

athens is to dangerous andi expeirence many revolts there. also syracuse should be protected, you can use it to ur advantage when the romans attack themselves

Athens? Dangerous? I always take Athens first, whether I'm playing as Greece or Macedon. It is a stable city that generates a high volume of cash. Syracuse is beyond difficult to hold and I recommend abandoning the city unless you are completely confident in your ability to hold it. The last time I played Greece, I took my army from Syracuse to Sparta so I could unite southern Greece. Then I demolished all destructable buildings in Syracuse that I could as to salvage the resources. You should focus on the defending the homefront as Greece before looking beyond your borders. Push Macedon as far as you can, destroy if able to. As far as the Brutii factor is concerned, you, as Greece, will be at war with all of Rome for basically the whole game or until you defeat them. Your best bet its to make sure you use the natural choke points in the mountains to engage invading Brutii armies. Once Greece is securely under your control, then you look to expansion.

With greece train diplomats and send them north, west and east. Ie make peace with thrace...that'll secure the north and then make peace with Pontus, Seleucia, and the scythians(egypt wouldn't be too bad either) and the west diplomats...bribery!

I'm currently playing as Greece on VH/VH.

The Crazy Person is right about Syracuse. In the beginning of my game, both Carthage and the Scipii declared war on me and tried to take Syracuse - turn after turn after turn. The Brutii and Julii started landing troops there as well, and assaulted Thermon. Roman dominance of the sea meant that I couldn't get any reinforcements...anywhere.

Interesting thing...I ended up playing defensive for the first 6-8 turns or so. Don't normally do that, but I had little choice since I was constantly being attacked (every turn) at Thermon and Syracuse. Thermon was isolated from my major production cities by Macedonian territory (and I figured Macedon was itching to attack me, so I decided not to provoke anything by moving through its borders) and held out only because I had my Spartans there (40 Spartans can go a long way), and Syracuse held it's ground because I was able to build some hoplites (no sea reinforcements).

Something else that's interesting...Carthage has yet to go to war with Rome. They alternate: Scipii beseige me, build siege equipment, attack...and are dealt a crushing defeat. Then, before I can do anything, Carthage comes along and sieges the same city, builds siege equipment, and also suffers a crushing defeat. By the time that siege is lifted, the Scipii are back with another army (sometimes the Brutii fill in).

My first city conquest must have come like 5 years into the game (I didn't even have spare resources to divert towards taking small rebel towns).

Honestly, I was really surprised at how challenging this sort of thing worked out. Right now I'm fighting Rome and Carthage in the West, Macedon and Thrace on the Greek peninsula, and Pontus in the East. A couple turns ago, 8 of my 11 towns were under siege (by all different groups). I have yet to suffer any major defeat, but my resources are continually stretched pretty thin, as well as my budget. The good thing is that I'm no longer purely on the defensive. The bad thing is that I have Roman fleets sitting outside of my ports and troop reinforcement across the sea is totally not an option for me...so I'm running 3 independent theaters, which sucks.

[This message has been edited by Admiral Munk (edited 02-05-2005 @ 09:41 PM).]

PersianStrap: I usually conquer in order towards the north, beginning with Corinth. Don't just attack Athens first, because there's no way you're getting along with the Macedonians. Athens, as long as it is in rebel hands, will be sterile, and therefore out of your way. Get Corinth, Athens, Larissa, Apollonia, and Thessalonica in the order listed. Defend Syracuse, it should be your staging grownd for the later conquest of Sicily. What I did was build a barracks on the first turn in Syracuse, and start pumping Hoplites. As long as you have a sufficient force of Hoplites, you will dominate any street fight, and will be able to defend Syracuse. I held on to it using bribery and stiff defenses. Don't worry about money, with the reunification of mainland Greece, you should be rich enough. You can halt the Brutii by taking Apollonia from them. I did it with 6 units of Militia Hoplites. Advance on Salona next, since it will be another Brutii bastion soon enough. When you do that, the Brutii will concentrate on landing relatively weak forces every now and then next to Apollonia. Forces that you should have no problem destroying. Always try to kill their generals in any battle that you encounter them in. The key to winning with Greece in the first few turns is to blitz, and blitz mercilessly. Don't spend time on alliances and diplomacy, these wont work with Macedon, the Romans, or Carthage. After the reunification of mainland Greece, take Crete, send a diplomat to Salamis and get trade rights with the Egyptians, and then ship him over to the Seleucids and do the same. Peace with the Seleucids should not last long, as you will inevitably want the Aegean to be a Greek zone. The Aegean is arguably the richest area in the map. After that, I qued up 6 units of Armoured Hoplites (Sparta, love that city) and sent them straight into Messana, along with a 4-star general. Near Messana, I sent 5 unit of Hoplites from Syracuse to join their army, and laid siege to the Scipii. After Messana, its Lylibaeum. While you are doing all of this, any city that is not building infantry should be constructing ships. Take a very powerful navy and put it between Messana and Capua, block any Roman ship that carries men on it and sink that ship. You can do this by spreading the varius ships around the enemy, blocking all routes of escape, and they will force the enemy to sink. I can't begin to count how many armies and generals I've killed that way, it certainly makes life easier.

A unit that you want to look forward to is the Armoured Hoplite. It's fantastic. The first cities that can produce it are Thessalonica, Sparta, and Syracuse. I've built temples of Nike in each of these cities, and was pumping up double-bronze chevron Armoured Hoplites out of these.