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Topic Subject: Civil War: Romans vs. Romans

Imperator Romano
Legionary

posted 10 January 2009 12:38 EDT (US)

Ok, so I'm very close to going into civil war in my H/H campaign as the Julii (I have enough support from the people to do so) but I'm a bit hesitant because it seems very difficult. I think it's worth mentioning again that I just got the game probably about a month ago, so this is my first serious campaign where I haven't re-loaded previous saved games or had random crashes so I'm glad about that.

I would like to know what strategies do you guys use, and what you done in the past. Let me explain a bit.
I'm mainly concern about the quality of troops, it's 215 BC and the Marius reforms already happened so all roman factions have upgraded. In my campaign I've sent the gauls, spaniards, britons, and germans into the history books taking their territory. I've gotten so used to fighting "barbarians" that I'm not sure my current strategy will work against roman armies. So I would like to know what's your strategy against them.

Also, my biggest rival will be the Brutii. They hold southern Italy, all of Greece (or about too anyway). The Brutii also took the Dacian territory. The Scipii have Sicily and Africa and currently going for Egyptian territory. But I'm not so worry about them just yet.
The Brutii have a huge amount of soldiers in Dacia, outnumbering me 5-1 with a mix of quality troops and some early AM troops as well as some PM.

So my tactic is (and please feel free to critize it) is to keep my troops in dacia by the bridges so if they attack me I'll have the upper-hand and should be able to lesser their numbers. While I keep those huge armies in Dacia, I go for all of Italy, kicking the Scipii out of there and hopefully the Brutii then go for Rome. I don't plan to do any of this until I'm certain I've build up my army and I'll take advantage of the "Military pass" treaty to have armies right next to Italian cities right before I attack. Once I take over Italy I'll send those troops to dacia to wipe out the remaining Brutii and then move my way south to Greece.
I'd like to have alliances with Greece and Egypt so they can help me, that way each faction will have two fronts to fight making my job a bit easier. I'm so outnumbered! Thankfully I have the cash so I'm gonna build up the greatest amount of soldiers I possibly can.

So anyway, sorry for the long post, if you've read it, what do you think?

EDIT: Pics to illustrate what I'm talking about.

The Brutii taking control of Greece.

The Scipii determine to take out Egypt.

[This message has been edited by Imperator Romano (edited 01-10-2009 @ 12:56 PM).]

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Replies:

Octavium
Legionary

posted 10 January 2009 14:27 EDT (US) 1 / 8

To be overly simplistic, one of the flaws of RTW is that Italy is invincible, control Italy and you can fend off however many armies they send. Take Italy in a Blitzkrieg assault, the only major threat you will deal with is the Senate Army (and you can sometimes dodge this with a spy/siege equipment and taking Rome before the Senate Army can touch you, don't count on it though). Have at least 2 full stacks ready and with siege equipment. If you let the other families get into a Civil War mode and bring armies back from the field you will be in for a hard slog. The Scipii is easy, take Capua and they are off Italy, then you just have to fight off sieges from Sicily (not too hard, cavalry for sallies and archers for the actual assaults). The Brtuii might be more of an issue, taking Croton and Tarentum before they can react can be tough, so either do it or deal with whatever they bring back and do it the hard way. Your stacks should be higher level troops than theirs (Principes not Hastati, plenty of Archers and cavalry) so blitzing Italy should be eminently possible in 2-3 years.

Once you control Italy you have cut off the heads of the families, but they both have a rich and nearby powerbase. The Scipii will try and do a Carthage on you, either fend them off or invade Sicily with your stack, your call. The Brutii are easier to defend against (they are less good at crossing from Greece to Italy than the Scipii are from Sicily). However, Greece is a good place to go for more money and territories, so you might want to go for it anyway.

That's just my technique, I'm sure others have cunning plans.

Imperator Romano
Legionary

posted 10 January 2009 17:09 EDT (US) 2 / 8

Thanks. So far I've been able to take complete control of Italy, taking Rome took quite a bit of cash (bribes) and the city just would not fall down so that took quite a bit of men. Now I'm kinda broke and with my army depleted. Thankfully I've been able to sign ceasefires with the two remaning factions which most likely won't last for long. So it's time to re-train and build up the army again.

With the SPQR gone, it's between the three factions to see who will be supreme ruler of Rome and things aren't looking so good for me right now. Having an idea of what to expect campaign strategy wise. Any advice in fighting in the battle against other roman troops? Mostly after-Marius troops.

[This message has been edited by Imperator Romano (edited 01-10-2009 @ 05:09 PM).]

Octavium
Legionary

posted 10 January 2009 17:19 EDT (US) 3 / 8

Just have bigger and better armies, if you can't then try cheap tactics, sieges if you are good at them, or fight battles only to shoot arrows in them and then withdraw. Remember, you are capturing very big cities, you'll be able to train and re-train some very good troops. With 4 Italian cities you can raise a full devastating army in 5 turns.

Andy1984
Legionary

posted 10 January 2009 19:51 EDT (US) 4 / 8

You may want to bring some artillery with you in the attack, but the key is: advance as fast as possible. Any turn you wait, each Bruti city may train soldiers, whereas your economy (how big it may be) probably cannot. Should you prepare an army and spearhead into Greece (which has some nice infrastructure mostly), you might break Bruti.

Andy

[This message has been edited by Andy1984 (edited 01-10-2009 @ 07:58 PM).]

Hussarknight
Seraph Emeritus

posted 11 January 2009 04:10 EDT (US) 5 / 8

A powerful navy is all you'll need to keep the Scipii at bay. Attack any ships they have, going after ones with troops on them first. The same goes for keeping the Brutii at bay in Greece.

If you haven't done so already get trade rights with both the Scipii and Brutii so you can rebuild your economy. Once you have a large amount of money available prepare an army and attack the Brutii in Greece. The good thing is that many of their armies are commanded by captains so you can bribe them relatively cheap. The Brutii have the same units as you so any armies you bribe will join your faction.

A useful tactic for defeating the Brutii is to have always place your army close to the mountains that way you'll have a huge uphill advantage in battle which should make them a piece of cake. I won a lot of heroic victories that way in my own Julii campaign (which also was the first one I ever played). Be sure to take lots of missiles troops with you as they'll get a huge range from being on high elevation.

Hussarknight

Nikos of Syria
Legionary

posted 11 January 2009 05:36 EDT (US) 6 / 8

The Romans have excellent cavalry, although the AI tends to forget it. Use lots of legionary cavalry and praetorian legionary, cavalry auxilia can also be useful. Rome should be a huge city by now; get a few legionary first cohorts for morale boosts and garrison your italian cities with urbans. These small advantages really make the difference when fighting the Romans.
A strong fleet probably is a good idea, but the chances are it will be a long time before your fleet will be able to fight the Scipii. If you take over Sicily, Carthage and Thapsus, you'll get loads of money in and chop the Scipii economy in half. Their fleets will gradually disappear. But at least until you have taken over a few of their good territories, don't have any delusions about trying to wipe out their fleets.
The Brutii should be much easier to beat at sea; take over Greece first, leave them in Dacia for a while, it isn't as rich. Greece is, after all, the richest place on the map. When you control Italy, Spain, Gaul, and Greece, you will be invincible. Except maybe against a faction (usually Egypt) that controls all the East with lots of pharaoh's guards and chariots. Do not - repeat, DO NOT - underestimate Egypt. I find them even harder to beat than the Romans. And if the Seleucid Empire has somehow survived, don't underestimate them either. Their Huge City troops are pretty much the best in the game. Armoured elephants, legionaries, silvershields, chariots, cataphracts.....
The Romans aren't usually as hard to fight as people make out. Only Scipii fleets and brutii urbans normally make any impression.
A final piece of advice, just in case you didn't know; don't go anywhere near gladiators, they suck, as do arcani.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
That here obedient to their laws, we lie.

Long live the Argyraspidai!

[This message has been edited by Nikos of Syria (edited 01-11-2009 @ 05:37 AM).]

ShieldWall
Legionary

posted 11 January 2009 06:05 EDT (US) 7 / 8

The way I'd handle it is to keep a few armies covering your northern territories, not really intending to attack unless the opportunity presents itself, but rather to defend and stop the Brutii messing you about up there. With a few good full stacks (with barracks and cavalry stables behind them that can repair every unit you have and quickly) you should be fine. Bridge battles are always useful when faced with a numerically huge enemy, so take those where you can.

The main battle should be against Italy first. Take the whole damn thing off them and fast. I don't like to lay siege to places, but batter down the walls with catapults as soon as I arrive. This way you can kill the small garrisons before nearby full stacks can intervene. You can then go after Sicily, probably the Scipii won't have much there to stop you. You can then use Sicily as a naval base to turn out a load of quinquiremes to control the seas and keep the Scipii penned into Africa. But the Scipii are just a distraction, your real enemy in this civil war is the Brutii in Greece. That seems to be where most of their forces are, and it's certainly the bedrock of their economy. Take this bedrock off them and make it yours.

Having a powerful army helps a lot. The other Roman factions, under the AI's sage guidance, will probably be a mix of pre-Marian reform units and weak post-Marians like Auxilia. If you've got armies packed full of legionary cohorts and cavalry, you'll cut through this rabble very easily. Keep an eye on Brutii cities - see if you can find one with an Awesome Temple of Mars. Retraining all your units here will give them +3 experience and a big advantage.

Imperator Romano
Legionary

posted 12 January 2009 15:04 EDT (US) 8 / 8

So for those interested. The Brutii slowly started taking my northern european territories, I ran out of money from bribing SPQR and Brutti troops (went from like 150,000+ denarii to 15,000, one SPQR regiment asked for like 107,000 denarii and I was impatient so yeah...I pay them) so I couldn't train more troops and even if I did they will take forever to get to the battlefield. So I became frustrated and ended the game. So much for my first campaign but oh well, you live and learn. It was mainly me running out of patience.

[This message has been edited by Imperator Romano (edited 01-12-2009 @ 03:05 PM).]

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