Post Patch Elephant Usage - Total War Heaven Forum

Topic Subject: Post Patch Elephant Usage

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Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)

posted 09 October 2004 02:11 EDT (US)

I think this patch really messed up the elephants. Before they often used to cause a lot of superficial knockdown casualties, but now that's all they cause, making them almost useless in any multiplayer armies. Today I was using the Seleucids in multiplayer as usual, and as usual knew that elephants are a crucial part of any high budget Seleucid army right? Wrong! The new patch made the elephants pathetic. They're good for nothing but causing disorganization. They don't even provide that same crucial fear factor that they used to. I was fighting a huge Julii army today with no upgrades, and I told my Cataphract Elephants to charge straight into a unit of First Cohort Legionaries. I caused 3 deaths out of all of the soldiers knocked down. THREE un-upgraded legionaries died from a charge by Cataphract Elephants with 1 valor and 1 armor. For anyone who's strategy used to incorporate elephants, I now reccommend that unless you're fighting an all cavalry Parthian or Scythian noob, don't waste your money on these oversized mice. They're officially more useless than wardogs in multiplayer.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin

Author

Replies:

revoltt
Legionary

posted 09 October 2004 04:42 EDT (US) 1 / 33

yep oversize mice...

[This message has been edited by revoltt (edited 10-09-2004 @ 04:42 AM).]

Gaj
Legionary

posted 09 October 2004 09:06 EDT (US) 2 / 33

Maybe it was changed so that they needed other troops to finish what the elephants started? Instead of having a stand-alone killing machine, you need a backup unit to take advantage of the chaos it causes. Though it still should really lower morale.

GAJ

Adder
Fallen Angel
(id: The Adder)

posted 09 October 2004 11:17 EDT (US) 3 / 33

I got owned by some Elephants yesterday. They're still pretty strong but maybe they shouldn't have been downgraded as much as they were.

Adder |
"I would like to wonder if Adder always acts like a stuck up asshole?" - Coldviper

[This message has been edited by Adder (edited 10-09-2004 @ 11:17 AM).]

gordon1
Legionary

posted 09 October 2004 12:11 EDT (US) 4 / 33

they are so expensive why even bother if they dont cause the chaos they did before.

damn elephants are expensive make them back to expensive and deadly also

Pladio
Legionary

posted 09 October 2004 18:19 EDT (US) 5 / 33

Download the mod toi change the unit stats and make the elephants back to normal.
If you want the original stats i'll give you them as i didn't upgrade my game yet when i heard the elephants would be downgraded. (Cause i think they are good as they are. Impossible to beat, except with very good troops or PIGS !!!!!)

Austin Powers
Legionary
(id: Emperor_Julian)

posted 09 October 2004 18:23 EDT (US) 6 / 33

This totally sucks-why did they change elephants! And the worst part is I can't download the unit editor cuz I have to download stuff in a dfferent way and teh link doesn't work for me! Arrrgh!

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Adder
Fallen Angel
(id: The Adder)

posted 09 October 2004 18:25 EDT (US) 7 / 33

If you change the unit stats you won't be able to play online...

Adder |
"I would like to wonder if Adder always acts like a stuck up asshole?" - Coldviper

Colovion
Legionary

posted 09 October 2004 21:56 EDT (US) 8 / 33

Quote:

The new patch made the elephants pathetic. They're good for nothing but causing disorganization.

They still have a moral penalty on troops.

Those two things is all that elephants were used for - you can't have one unit which can mow down everyone - go play Warcraft if you want that. You need to have a combined arms force which uses the shock of the elephants as basically oversized horses and follow that up with infantry.

Men do not become tyrants in order to keep out the cold

- Aristotle -

Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)

posted 09 October 2004 23:32 EDT (US) 9 / 33

One unit of regular pathetic elephants is about 1200 Denarii. The largest Cataphract Elephants are about 2300 Denarii. Damn me if I pay 2300 Denarii for an un-upgraded unit that not only causes only superficial casualties but is still scared shitless by flaming pigs, can screw your own army as badly as theirs, and no longer has as large a morale bonus as it did before. If they wanted to improve elephants then make them easier to kill, not harder to kill with. If a man is sent flying by and elephant or is trampled underfoot, you don't expect them to get back up, yet now, that's exactly what they do. And I wish they were oversized horses. Horses kill people.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin

Pladio
Legionary

posted 10 October 2004 06:34 EDT (US) 10 / 33

Adder, u create backup of real file and modded file... When u want to play multi u recopy real file and put it in the game. If u want to play single then u just put in the modded file.

nokkio82
Legionary

posted 11 October 2004 22:11 EDT (US) 11 / 33

I was afraid this would be the result of the patch. I still haven't downloaded it yet. Why did they do this? The elephant was already quite gutless, nor did it kill a whole lot of men, but it scared infantry very well. Now it does nothing! The elephants should have a decrease in price, because they cost more than they're worth. Not only are they espensive, but they take away from how many men you can have, because of their enormous price. I'm so angry GGgggrrrrrrrr....

"Every [person] has value -- even if only to serve as a bad example." - Atilla the Hun

Colovion
Legionary

posted 12 October 2004 04:01 EDT (US) 12 / 33

Listen: elephants are not underpowered. I just did a few tests:

1 - 1 Unit of War Elephants vs 2 Units of Princeps = 88 Princeps dead after the first charge

2 - 1 Unit of War Elephants vs 2 Units of Triarii = 126 Triarii dead after charge + milling and killing

3 - 1 Unit of War Elephants vs 2 Units of Urban Cohorts = 135 Urban Cohorts Dead after charge and more milling and killing

4 - 1 Unit of War Elephants vs 2 Units Auxilia = 78 Dead Auxilia after two charges.

5 - 1 Unit of War Elephants vs 2 Units Velites = 83 Velites Dead after chasing them around the map and getting almost all of my kills with arrow-fire.

So if that's underpowered I'd hate to see what you guys think the elephants SHOULD be like...

Men do not become tyrants in order to keep out the cold

- Aristotle -

Colovion
Legionary

posted 12 October 2004 04:02 EDT (US) 13 / 33

oh yeah - and in each of those tests the elephants never went past "Tired" (in teh Velites one) and never went different than "Eager" nor lost one elephant.

Men do not become tyrants in order to keep out the cold

- Aristotle -

Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)

posted 12 October 2004 18:01 EDT (US) 14 / 33

Use them in multiplayer. I will swear to you that after the first charge against an unupgraded unit of Legionaries, half their number were tossed and knocked down but only 3 died.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin

Weisi the Great of Stavka
Legionary

posted 14 October 2004 09:58 EDT (US) 15 / 33

What is the crucial difference between Multi-player and non-multi-player?

I am a huge elephant player and haven't got the patch yet... getting really worried now

Colovion
Legionary

posted 14 October 2004 16:34 EDT (US) 16 / 33

You're worried?!! Look at my results! If you don't believe them then download the patch and try it yourself...

Men do not become tyrants in order to keep out the cold

- Aristotle -

Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)

posted 14 October 2004 23:11 EDT (US) 17 / 33

Dude, I downloaded the patch before I posted this. I tried again too. I managed to do better after another test. I caused 30 casualties to a unit of Legionary Cohorts after 2 charges.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin

Gaj
Legionary

posted 14 October 2004 23:22 EDT (US) 18 / 33

This may sound rather far fetched, but perhaps there are two different ways to charge? Maybe Ace, you are ordering them to run through the ranks, while Colovian double-right-clicked the enemy itself. Just a thought.

GAJ

Colovion
Legionary

posted 15 October 2004 03:05 EDT (US) 19 / 33

I double right clicked every time.

Quote:

Dude, I downloaded the patch before I posted this. I tried again too. I managed to do better after another test. I caused 30 casualties to a unit of Legionary Cohorts after 2 charges.

How often do you charge elephants directly into the front of Legionary Cohorts? Sure you might want to but Legionary Cohorts are probably the best troops in the whole game. Have you tried my tests? The ones with the actual real troops in teh game which will be facing them? Granted, I didn't use the other cultures' troops but I felt it was a pretty fair test. Charging into the front of Legionary Cohorts is similar to charging headlong into Spartan Hoplites.

Men do not become tyrants in order to keep out the cold

- Aristotle -

Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)

posted 15 October 2004 23:36 EDT (US) 20 / 33

Colovian, Legionary Cohorts get their salads tossed by Praetorians and Urban Cohorts.

And yea, I double clicked too, if you don't the elephants are more of in 'walk mode' than 'fight mode' and would probably take casualties in the charge.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin

[This message has been edited by Ace_Cataphract (edited 10-15-2004 @ 11:37 PM).]

Colovion
Legionary

posted 16 October 2004 05:03 EDT (US) 21 / 33

whoops - you said Legionary Cohorts in your reply - was just replying to that and didn't realize my (or your) typo

I tested with Urban Cohorts

regardless, both lose horribly

Men do not become tyrants in order to keep out the cold

- Aristotle -

Wartz
Legionary
(id: josephschlimmer)

posted 16 October 2004 10:00 EDT (US) 22 / 33

Elephants still kick. Yesterday I whipped a roman army that vastly outnumbered me(1200 to 450). Basically 2 units of plain elephants and 1 unit of war elephants did all the work. Round shield Cav mopped up. Roman casualties 1000, mine 88.

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Colovion
Legionary

posted 16 October 2004 21:50 EDT (US) 23 / 33

1100 Romans vs 1500 Gauls

ROmans hire one unit of Merc Elephants.

Romans use the elephants to basically charge straight down their flank - routing every single enemy unit as they contacts them.

Roman casualties?

Gaul Casualties?

780

The elephants killed 346 by themselves. The rest was done by Cavalry chasing them down. If you use them like they should be used they're fine.

Men do not become tyrants in order to keep out the cold

- Aristotle -

Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)

posted 16 October 2004 22:06 EDT (US) 24 / 33

I dunno, I'm gonna start trying them again. Mabye it was just a fluke of one battle and morale and crap, cause all your stats seem awesome.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin

Colovion
Legionary

posted 17 October 2004 00:13 EDT (US) 25 / 33

That's why I was so perplexed on why people would think that they are underpowered now. I mean I've lost Armoured Elephants to Hoplites and Spartans like flies but I guess I shouldn't have charged my elephants into hoplites.

Men do not become tyrants in order to keep out the cold

- Aristotle -

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