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Total War Heaven » Forums » Medieval 2 Multiplayer Discussion and Hotseat Forum » [Hotseat A] Sicily hotseat campaign
Topic Subject:[Hotseat A] Sicily hotseat campaign
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M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 18 January 2009 13:40 EDT (US)         
This is where I'll document the progress of Sicily in the forum hotseat campaign. Given the game is over, all other players are welcome to read my write up now, such that it is.

My current plan is to play Sicily as a trade nation, intent not on crushing people but on being profitable.

Expansion will be first south and then east and maybe west - the small settlements north of Sicily (I'll add the names here later when I remember what they are / write them down) always seem to be a bit slow to develop every time I've come across them, still I may grab them if I can anyway.

I plan to ally with Venice and trade with EoJ's Spain. For now at least :0)

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 01-18-2013 @ 01:28 PM).]

posted 16 February 2009 06:40 EDT (US)     26 / 93       
I agree that you should blitz Venice and Florence as soon as Hoppylyte's back is turned. Use either spies or ballistae to open the gate, and rush the (Hopefully) weak garrisons. If you can't take both in one turn, then at least besiege them and you can wait out the ceasefire.

I love the note to Spain. Seriously, what have the Romans ever done for us?!

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 02-16-2009 @ 06:40 AM).]

posted 16 February 2009 21:56 EDT (US)     27 / 93       
Oh yeah that note. I laughed too.

Michael Jackson
posted 17 February 2009 02:41 EDT (US)     28 / 93       
Seems like Venice will leave her home cities unguarded with this crusade. A swift strike with artillery can give you a good advantage over them.
And as long as the Crusade lasts, his strongest armies won't be able to fight you. Though you should be wary of them as the generals will be a lot stronger when they come back.
I'd advice you to build up Pavise Crossbowmen, for the defence of the cities, if you capture them that is.

Also, if you attack Venice, build up your fleet and make one strong fleet. Attack his ships and you need never worry about his troops.

You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.

Chauvinism is not a particularly nice trait at the best of times but can be suicidal when the person your talking too can have you executed on a whim.

Facebook, anyone?
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 24 February 2009 17:27 EDT (US)     29 / 93       
Turn 5

More worrying news from Spain about Venice. I have to wonder how much it's really Venice threatening to cross me and how much it's scare-mongering - it'd be a lot better for Spain and Turkey to have Sicily and Venice fighting each other.

I responded out of the game as I was in a hurry to try and get the game out quickly, leading to the following email chain after the end of the turn:
Gonzo the magnificent, your counsel is most intriguing to us. We are monitoring the situation in Italy closely and keep a keen eye on the positioning of Venice and Milan.
Alas our poor people can do little but to toil to grow our nation, work hard in the fields, eat pie and engage in some friendly racketeering, we are not in a position to truely threaten Venice although our forces are slowly gathering. We could imaging that expanding your territory to our peaceful isles could appear a strategic bonus, particularly with the support of Venice. That said, if you cross us in that way you would find yourself with a much stronger future opponent in Venice with little else to act as a buffer - the lands controlled by Sicily are young and require investment, it would make sense for you to trade with us as your ally.

Matilda continues her merry way towards you, the furry animals playing around her feet as she tries to stamp on them. Milan seems to be slow to embrace the new mud path technology that is rolling out across the more advanced parts of the countryside, a fine day it will be when walking between two cities can be accomplished in under 4 years.

Our military offering to you is but a token gesture we fear, but a sign of our honourable intent. If all goes to plan, a small force would be near Marsailles within 5-10 'turns'. Do you have desires over the lands of Milan or would your eye wander northwards towards the rest of France and the likely English incursion?

Yours with no degree of ill thought nor plans to disect your favourite horses

Roger the Godfather

Rodger the Godfather,
You must think me some kind of muppet that I would dream of threatening your lands- do not be so quick to bring out the threats when you are among friends!
We do not anticipate our forces arriving at Marseilles for at least 7 seasons yet, but we shall notify you if any change of plans. As for future plans, Milan does indeed look lovely in the summer, but is rather close to Venice for my liking. I would prefer to go via Switzerland into the Germanic forests, but we shall see. It depends rather on the English keeping their side of the bargain.
Love and sunshine,
My appologies great Gonzo, I had not meant to threaten you - merely to point out the possible consequences of siding with Venice. The part about your horses was a specific non-threat, as I stated that we did not want to hurt them. Perhaps this odd way of interpreting our messages could be to explain for the deteriation on relations with Venice, I meant only to wish the Doge safety given the combination of narrow alleys, dark nights and potential watery graves that he must face...

You should be aware that both Sicily and Venice are allied to HRE, for our part it is purely to reduce the likelihood of an attack from Northern Italy, I imagine the same is true for Venice. I would appreciate it if you could inform me before you reach their barbaric lands in the mountains with your armies. Assuming they have not learned civilised ways from their Italian holdings, we would be glad to cancel our alliance with HRE to show our support for the Glorious armies of Spain.

For our part, we have heard nothing from England and in particular have not been offered any part of Spain in return for distracting you from Northern attacks.

Our fleet near southern Spain is in place to initiate blockades against your Moorish neighbours. I forget if you are at war with them, but we may as well join in if you are.

May your days be full of flowers and nice things, with bunny rabbits and other pleasant fluffy things, and may you not be stung by insects attracted to those flowers nor break your ankle in the rabbit holes.


p.s. was my sign off suitably cheery in this instance? I noted your liking of the countryside
Venice and I exchanged in-game messages however.

Seeing as I intend to keep the alliance up if possible, I should probably be more polite. Pah

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 02-24-2009 @ 05:28 PM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 04 March 2009 17:03 EDT (US)     30 / 93       
Turn 6

Spain seems to still intend to ally

I send a suitably random email back, trying to be pleasant for a change

Venice hasn't started paying me a tribute yet - but there did seem to be an oddity whereby I couldn't accept his offer either - so I changed it to add map info and sent it back.

I had an email where Hoppylyte said that the tail end of his message was a lie and he'd intended to be sneaky - I'm inclined to believe him as it didn't sound very plausible, even so I sort of reacted in a way to annoy him. I intend not to betray an ally (certainly not when I'm not in a good position to do so) but he doesn't need to know that.

Some faction ranking screens - Venice is romping away in the lead - Sicily still only has 4 poxy small territories, hopefully soon to become 5 when Adjeco (or whatever it is) falls.

The plan remains to wind up Venice while expanding west. I'm not sure if allying with Milan would be a step too far with Venice or just a good thing...

Turn 7

Well, nothing much happened really - I took Adjeco and renamed a few settlements.

A small fleet has headed over towards Spain to pick a fight with the Moors - blockading them should either help me fight them or keep my upkeep down by sinking my boats

Plans for an alliance with Spain are held up by an unfortunate lack of road infrastructure in the Milan/Genoa region

Venice backtracked from the fib about Turkish invasions

Turn 8
Spain and Sicily rejoice in the union of the royal families in a double marriage and raunchy double honeymoon - several new family members can be expected, but will the public question their webbed toes?

Spain was at war with Portugal so bravely the Sicilian western fleet engaged a smaller and lesser armed Portuguese fleet, slightly beating it. Huzzah!

The development of the small Sicilian settlements elsewhere progresses with tedious lethargy. None of the settlements are yet large enough to allow paved roads and ports seem to be beyond the comprehension of town planners.

Hopefully other players will see the poxy forces and poor settlements of Sicily as a reason to not bother her shores rather than as an excuse to do so.

I had an exchange with the Turks that I was quite pleased with - a grape deal of poorly executed jokes went into it...

Turn 9
Oops, forgot that I'd not posted about that turn and now deleted the pictures.

If I remember rightly, Sicily overthrew the pope and conquered the world.

Turn 10
It seems that the world and pope weren't quite conquered in turn 9, given that Turn 10 starts much the same as Turn 8 finished.

Bandito makes some vague noises about how I should support him, and also gives me some 'helpful advice' that I should build some buildings and have a smaller army. A memory stirs now that he said fairly much the same thing in turn 9.
How original, build things, who'd have thought?

That said he has a point as building in Naples is postponed for a turn due to a temporary lack of funds. Pah. I tried in vain to borrow money from Milan - they'd have gotten a decent return (25% over 5 turns) but didn't bite.

Upgrades to the western(ish) isles should soon (3 turns ish) allow ports there greatly expanding trade. Calamari may then change to a town to allow profit from that trade, but 'Adjecco all trades' will stay as a castle so that I have one.

Algiers is the target of a little mission and to give the Moors warning and doom the expedition to failure, I also blockade a port.

If anyone is actually bothering to follow this, please let me know and I may start bumping it when I add bits.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 04-13-2009 @ 04:13 AM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 18 April 2009 17:13 EDT (US)     31 / 93       
Ok, I'll bump this myself to make sure that the thread doesn't lock itself - that'd be quite embarrassing.

Turn 11

The financial situation appears to be improving, Naples gets back going on the buildings - nowhere else had the chance to which was rather positive for the coffers - still a bit of a cashflow boost and should last through the building next turn.

Venice seems to have lost Constantinople again, not sure if it was deliberate but I chuckled.

As Calamari is soon to be an upgraded castle it'll be able to build a port and hopefully some mines. I may try and then turn it into a town, although I'm not sure as I'd have built things in it that couldn't be built in a town with the same population (i.e. mines and a port).

There will be pictures, just not today, btw.

My fleet couldn't quite get to Algiers this turn, so my troops land next turn, siege for one turn and then take it hopefully. That'll be kept as a castle I think.

Nothing much else happened. Oh, I'm sending a diplomat to France to see if they want to trade as EoJ hasn't showed any sign of war with them in the near future.

Turn 12
What happened to turn 11's pictures? A mystery indeed.

this turn however there are pictures:

Bandito seems happy with sharing Africa - Extending myself to Egypt wouldn't appeal until I feel more secure with Venice

EoJ is vaguely thinking of taking on France, but not yet. My diplomat makes for Marseilles to try and get some trade before war kicks off - accidentally passing the Portuguese princess enroute - declaring peace with them may be a good plan if they're not going to be killed by Spain.

My spy in Venice got booted out and I got an angry message from Hoppy. Ho hum. I'll set up spies in the neighbouring cities instead.

We have besieged Algiers, it should fall next turn as there's not much inside and my priest has scouted out the road and there's no reinforcements near. Another army heads by sea to Tripoli.

Newer Carthage and Calamari should both get ports in 2 turns time, hopefully increasing income rather nicely.

Turn 13
Algiers falls to the might of Sicily - but I couldn't think of an amusing name to call it, alas alack etc

Tripoli is besieged and should fall on Turn 14.

Nothing much else is happening, Spain is still delaying on France, which seems a little odd. Venice seems to have given/sold Antioch to the Turks - seems a good way to avoid a fight there, but then where will he go? I can guess and I don't like the idea of meeting his crusaders in person...

There's a pile of rebel soldiers/fleets about which are a touch annoying, may have to go and clean them up without upsetting anyone.

post turn addition
I think that Hoppy will be sending his crusader fullstack back to take Naples - he's talked about them coming this way by boat and made pathetic excuses for why he should be allowed to land them in my territory. This means moving to a war footing; which could be hard and probably won't work, but needs to be tried. I've sent messages to the other players asking for aid, hopefully they can spare some cash to help, or in the case of Bandito he may build up his forces with the intention of striking at Hoppylyte and in doing so may cause a distraction.

Turn 14

My ships scouted to the East a little but didn't get very far - no sign of Hoppy's armies yet.

I'll be building up in Naples at two units per turn - alas Parmaleo can't build any more units for a couple of turns - foolish focus on economics.

Attacking Hoppy first makes some sense but would anger many nations. I hope to block his fleet to make him strike first instead.

I've also launched my 'little surprise' which should reach somewhere in a couple of turns. muwahahaha

turn 15
I've attacked Milan and got attacked by Hungary. Tricky bastards. Annnywaays I've beseiged Milan and you can take Genoa whenever you want.
Hmm, ORLY?

Since Hungry 'attacked' Venice, I side with the attacked rather than the attacker, surely any unallying with Hoppy then must be a mistake.

Oops, looks like a mistake then.

Milan is unfortunately likely to fall without me getting my hands on Genoa - only because I can't really get any troops there though.

In the west Sicily rushes to take the last of the Moorish lands - although this army was really hoping for mercenaries and there haven't been any yet. Hopefully soon or it'll be embarrassing.

In the east, the dawn is breaking, ahhh ahh, and my ships are seeking the Venetians who ought to be somewhere near Corinth. That's rather close for comfort. Naples is building up at it's paltry 2 units per turn and starting to bring some mercs inside the walls. If I take the mercs too soon then they may replenish when Hoppy is around to take them, which wouldn't be nice. Hopefully Naples can get up to 15-17 units before Hoppy arrives. It'll be expensive if Hoppy then doesn't attack but heyho - I was wrong in the other game about him taking Genoa, not sure that means I'll be wrong here...

England is a sensible friend it seems - 1000 gold per turn and an alliance were offered and duly accepted, more gold for the war chest.

There is some building work ongoing, with mines and a couple of leather tanners due to finish next turn. I'm changing Calamari into a large town, castles are useful but hopefully towns will be better (certainly in the long run they would be, but the war is sooner than 'long run'). Still, militia and extra income should help - but then it's 2 turns until it's a town, then 2 more to get a basic barracks and another 3 to get the second one up with its italian spear militia - so 8 turns until good troops from there. 13 until well armoured better troops from there. And that's a long time in this game...

Turn 16 and 17
Right then, a couple of turns thrown in together - and a complete change in tack

Venice acknowledged my request to send his fleet a different route, indicating I was wrong about his plans. Very odd, but very welcome. I don't think war would go down too well given his size and resources - although that said I caught a glimpse of his crusader stack and it looks like my Naples defence force would have won against it (in my opinion).

So, I'm moving against Genoa as Hoppy is leaving it for me, my forces will arrive on turn 18, but will have potential reinforcements to deal with as Milan is rather wealthy currently.

The Turks have taken Egypt, the swine. I had sort of agreed that they could, but still, the swine.

The plan has moved more onto a economic footing, although I'll be still churning out troops in Naples - quite a good troop centre now there. A bonus is that Naples will gain stone walls soon (3 turns), finally.

Marrakesh has fallen to the excellent whatshisface general chap over that way. He couldn't get mercenaries, but it seemed that the Moors hadn't got any troops there other than their faction leader and faction heir. They were dispatched soundly. Huzzah!

Turn 18

The peace plan progresses with an army landing at Genoa and beseiging it. The Main part of the Milanese force is outside the settlement to the west. Spain's fleet and army are nearby so can hopefully join in nicely on their next turn.

Finances are rather tight, but enough was squeezed together to keep building - mines are quite handy additions that should be coming online in a couple of places over the next few turns - Genoa should be a huge trade boost too, particularly when it gets roads added (not sure why the AI didn't feel like making roads).

I may experiment with a merchant or two over at Marakesh. Once the city is more stable the general there can start the long march down south to Timbuktu...

Turn 19

Spain landed its forces to assist taking Genoa, huzzah!

I didn't actually need them in the end as the Milanese ran away, still, nice of them to help. Alas the help was causing the game to crash if I took Genoa - so I left a smallish force besieging and moved the noble general and rest of the army by sea to attack the rest of the Milanese forces. By chance, the Milanese retreated next to the Spanish and by attacking them again my noble general dragged Spain into the war - allowing Genoa to be taken without a crash (I correctly guessed that the crash was being caused by war being declared by Spain on Milan in the same moment that Milan was destroyed). Huzzah!

It's small but growing at 5.5% - still it'll be a while before it's useful.

Nothing else much happened, or so I thought - after the turn ended I sent a rather rude email to Bandito (saying the Turkish populace disliked his rule etc) and he seems to have used it as a pretext for war - most unkind of him. Whoops.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 06-10-2009 @ 02:47 AM).]

The Great Monty
(id: Monty501)
posted 12 June 2009 06:07 EDT (US)     32 / 93       
Interesting. Do continue posting I have been following this campaighn closely and rather enjoying it.
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 22 June 2009 16:26 EDT (US)     33 / 93       
Yay, someone has read the thread :0) I'm glad it's not just something I do as penance. Anyone who reads, feel free to chip in with comments or suggestions - I won't claim to have an unbeatable grasp of this game or diplomacy in general.

Turn 20
It looks like war with the Turks was avoided - well at least that Bandito didn't officially declare war.

My finances have improved a bit and Genoa (as was) will be upgrading its trade facilities as fast as possible. Given it's on a 2.5k population and needs 12k to upgrade the walls - I don't know if it's worth keeping low taxes and hoping to grow. I'll do it for a bit to see if I can build on the 4 chivalry of the general there.

Messages from the other players were fairly uninspiring.

I've sent my fleet from near Rhodes back to the West. Hoppy seems to be taking the Black Sea area and there's nothing I can do being too many turns behind. I could start a pointless war, but wouldn't have much scope to benefit from one.

MarrowQuiche will get a town hall this turn and a better church after that. Soon someone needs to set off south to get Timbuktu, although I'm wondering if sending a diplomat to bribe it is easier and cheaper...

It looks like north from Italy is the only route to expand currently - there will probably be war at some point soon between the human players and avoiding it will probably be either key to victory or a cause of defeat.
posted 22 June 2009 16:35 EDT (US)     34 / 93       
Tried bribing Timbuktu before on several occasions. Only worked once and in that one time by the time i was able to recruit units there, it rebelled again. I suggest you take an army. IIRC they are poor troops anyway. A Couple Normans will roll over them like shit through a goose
The Great Monty
(id: Monty501)
posted 04 July 2009 18:27 EDT (US)     35 / 93       
A Couple Normans will roll over them like shit through a goose

I will fight for Total War Heaven.

Will You?

[This message has been edited by Monty501 (edited 07-04-2009 @ 06:28 PM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 05 July 2009 04:48 EDT (US)     36 / 93       
I believe he's saying that high level Sicilian units would take Timbuktu quite easily.

I don't have any of those units to hand, but in 2 or 3 turns I should be able to scrape enough of a garrison together in MarrowQuiche (Marrakesh) to send the general there and a few units down south. I'll be slow but I need to start at some point. Leaving out the infantry might be the best bet - but that relies on finding mercs (I think that's doable though) - cutting down a few turns travelling would be a good thing if possible.

Turn 21

This turn saw a little bit of scrabbling for cash. No, not playing word games for prizes, just having to look down the back of the Don Roger's sofa for a few hundred florins.

The cash situation isn't desperate, but it should hopefully improve quite steadily from here. Sicily's armed forces haven't expanded much in the last few turns and that should, I think, allow the coffers to refill.

The Turks sent a fairly peaceful message - with them having allied with Hungry, that's a fairly direct kick at Venice.

I think I'll follow Bandito's advice from earlier in this thread (before he was playing in the game) and get a strong navy into the sea to stop/slow any attack towards me. They can go by land still, and with a jihad it wouldn't be too slow, but if I can make life hard for them at sea it'll help.

Trade from Genoa is kicking off nicely and my chivalrous general there is boosting the growth nicely (6.5% currently)

I've not taken any pictures of the north-west - there could be an issue forming up there as England, Spain and Sicily start getting jammed together. If Spain is content to not expand, or if England grants military access to German lands (assuming it reaches and takes Bern first) then it may be ok, but there's potential to see something kick off.
posted 05 July 2009 17:07 EDT (US)     37 / 93       
I believe he's saying that high level Sicilian units would take Timbuktu quite easily.
Correct. I thought a more colourful description may get my idea across better. Apparently not.

I see you do not trust a word the Turks are saying. Good. Trust no one
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 13 July 2009 04:20 EDT (US)     38 / 93       
Oops, I'd not realised I hadn't updated this for turn 22 - from memory:
pictures will follow hopefully
Turn 22

The turn began with an absense of cash - one of the downsides of queuing buildings and units up on the previous turn. (Still, a couple of my generals have discounts to buildings/units so it's handy to have them lined up).

I delayed a castle upgrade to get cash to do something more interesting. This included troop building - particularly ships which I plan to use to have more effect in the waters off of Greece.

Anyone reading the general update thread will have seen the general confusion arising from - a crusade to Riga. My thought (echoed by Spain and Venice, although either of them could be bluffing) was that England was behind that crusade being called, in conjunction with Turkey. It'd be possible for Spain to have called it to frame England, or for Venice to have done to cause a fight between us and England (that last one fits better with noone having mentioned it in messages before I did...)

I sent some fairly confused messages out generally ranting at England - even if they didn't call the crusade then they aren't my neighbours so I can call them names if I like :0)

I have a couple of spare generals not hanging around settlements (although I'm quite tempted to keep one near Naples in case Roger snuffs it soon). There's a bit of a lack of free troops but I'm recruiting in Genoa and one of the generals can pick up men there (and join up with some soldiers too - boom boom). From there (2-3 turns hence) he'll join the crusade and march north. I may - or may not - send another general east with a large portion of the Naples garrison. It would mean ceasing ship production for a little bit (discounted ships ftw) and focusing back on italian spears (discounted armoured spears ftw) for a few turns. Still, probably worth while if I don't mind a gap in leadership if Roger falls ill / dead.

I made a witty joke in the main thread about sending my men east instead of north - I'm not sure what the Turks would think of me sailing a stack towards them, but it could be interesting...

Turn 23

The financials for my turns are sort of beset by a bit of a flaw in the hotseat game - if you notice I have a good profit each turn, but never any cash. That's because I've queued a number of things from one turn to the next, meaning it seems to count that cost as already spent, so it's not a cost of the current turn. Weird but I thought I'd explain. I think I am making a profit, but rather a slower one.

Interesting messages, particularly from Venice. I didn't trust him then and even after the next turn showed more (don't peek ahead) I still don't. It's not been very long at all since he was avoiding war with the Turks like a whipped dog, yet now it's all bravado - sort of smells funny to me.

In the west the general there is bravely making his way south - there's a very scary looking rebel stack that could do him some serious damage, looks like an ex-Moorish stack to me. Still, lets hope it'll just sit there.

I sent a general off with almost all of the Naples garrison to join the crusade. He'll head east with the tide (next go). I've just completed a mission to reinforce the little rubbish castle to the south so should be able to send another general on crusade with my military reward next turn.

Turn 24
WAR! well, from Hoppy's message he seems to have attacked a boat (I came close to that). I don't know how much this is blustering and I still don't trust him. I've sent messages to Spain on the matter and he's also a bit doubtful, but then what can we do? Well, at the very least we can egg them on and make them fight more (or try to do so)

Venice offered me cash which was nice, although I couldn't take it. I tried but it wouldn't let me, rather than just me being noble.
A shame as I could still use more cash...

Armies head east on crusade and towards my north border (I got two crossbow units for the mission - not too shabby, even if not too great either - enough for the crusade at least).

Venice has a large force in a fort in north Italy - it's a bit intimidating with lots of heavy cavalry and decent spears. It's costing him a lot though so it's not all bad. It may be worth boosting a garrison or two, just in case though.

Building is carrying on and there should be new ports able to produce war galleys in 3 and 5 turns - that should help if we get into sea battles. Venice may have a lot of ships, but they're all just galleys. No doubt they'll get better ships at some point, but until then it's good to get going on them. Also extra trade is good :0)

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 07-17-2009 @ 05:39 PM).]

The Great Monty
(id: Monty501)
posted 28 July 2009 03:00 EDT (US)     39 / 93       
Have you any advise for a felllow sicily hotseat player?

For details see,8000,,10

I will fight for Total War Heaven.

Will You?

[This message has been edited by Monty501 (edited 07-28-2009 @ 03:04 AM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 01 August 2009 06:56 EDT (US)     40 / 93       
I'll try to post something helpful - maybe rushing for Egypt or something.

Anyway, here's a combined update of the last three turns (holiday interrupted the usually prompt (imho) updates)

Turn 25

This turn was largely uneventful, ahh, but the 'minor events' that there were caused some hubub...

I continued the plan of flooding the med with ships, producing a few more. Buildings were constructed where possible and the treasury continued it's downward spiral.

Given that Venice was still playing about at its 'cold war' and no real action was happening, I mentioned to the Turks that I'd ignore Venice's requests for me to attack the Turks more easily if the odd diplomat had his palm crossed with silver. A nice innocent comment I thought - but the topic of many emails and a few forum posts.
How it could be construed as a threat is beyond me :0)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:53:38 -0700
From: Bandito
Subject: Regarding Your Not So Subtle Threat.
To: me
Dear Godfather. If I got it straight--not sure if the servant had managed to translate it right--you wish to have some "protection" racket over my poor subjects?

The Turks are no trouble to your nation and I would like it to stay that way. I always spend all the money for the well being of my subjects rather than churning raging hordes of soldiers, unlike other human players. The present situation is different as the recent uncalled for (though expected) actions of the Venetians made me build up my army at the expense of economic growth, which is making me mightily sad.

What makes me even sadder is that at my moment of crisis, you had to add insult to injury. I, in return want to ask you a few questions before I make up my mind regarding this protection racket.

1. How much do you want, and for how long?

2. Can you live up to your threat? Due to the vast distance between us, I really cannot imagine that you can bring any sizable force next to my lands to threaten me. I will not be cowed by empty threats you know. Rather, I think you are better off worrying the HRE.

Allahu Akbar
meanwhile - between the turns...
Ye gads - an email from Hoppy detailing a plan between himself and Bandito to do over Sicily!
Here's the text:
Subject: SicilyT26+Important Classified info regarding the Turks
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:41:13 -0700

First of all, I must stress that you tell NOBODY about this, not even EoJ, and ESPECIALLY not Selifator because if Bandito catches wind of this then we're both screwed. The following screenshots are pictures of Bandito's messages to me regarding the imminent invasion on your lands. I've done my best to play along as yes, even assassinate your spy and give him 3000 florins to gain his trust. It was neccesary to get him to reveal his entire plan to me and provide you with exact details. Judging by his message he likely has a 5 or 6 piety imam hidden away from my spies and assassins seeing as how I assassinated his first one Baraka. As a gesture of my goodwill I'll even vote for your cardinal in the upcoming Papal election. Ignore the demand for 2000 florins. Best of luck!
having read it (on my good lady wife's blackberry - handy little things) I thought it sounded decidedly fake.
However, here are the images attached to it:

They sounded like the sort of thing / way that Bandito may write and I find them quite convincing. They explain quite nicely the very odd (I'd like it noted for the record that I wasn't taken in - even if I didn't know exactly what it was they were playing at) behaviour between Venice / Turkey. It also explained quite why Venice's full stack was hanging around (that bit I'd been more suspicious about) - could it be that having Genoa(as was) fully stocked with militia deterred Hoppy?

Panic ensued and I flapped a lot in the next turn...

Turn 26

With an imminent attack in mind, any plans of opening up Tripoli (as was) with roads etc was even more firmly cancelled and the budget diverted back to the military. A mission will help a little with that, but not tonnes.

More horror in this turn as Roger has finally snuffed it, King Simon will now move to Naples to take his place. It's quite reasonable timing with Naples needing to grow faster (it's the same size as Gonzolia but with fewer buildings to go) and so Simon's chivalry will help that. Also he'll leave a queue of discounted buildings (he's got an architect with him) in Gonzolia and get a nice discount on the remaining buildings in Naples.

The balance in the treasury shrank further still. Without a plan to break out of the current position things looked a little bleak - will there be an invasion, will Sicily be able to withstand it?

Turn 27

Everything is a little calmer about the invasion now. I have no firm reason to be calmer, but hopefully Spain at least will stand by Sicily.

Spain's message regarding Venice is a bit worrying though - could it be a horrid trick to move into position to attack Sicily? I'm ignoring that posibility as I've decided to be a good loyal ally so long as the marriage ties are in place. A war with Venice would be messy, but which side would the Turks take (if any)?

Venice's forces are numerous and strong - peace would be a good plan if possible - but Sicily does need to do something... I plan to wait for a couple of turns to see if there is an invasion before moving on HRE or making any big gestures like that.

In other areas of the map - my noble general in the south west is almost arriving at Timbuktu. He'll need lots of cash to get mercenaries but soon there'll be lots of lovely mining income and a merchant base there.

Gonzolia is 2 turns from finishing its merchant wharf and that should nearly double it's trade income (according to the chart) it should be nice for whichever city is on the other end of the trade too. That'll be about 900 more per turn and may balance the books a bit better, yay.

I'll probably bite the bullet and convert Owl Jeers to a city too - in the end I probably don't need castles and even though it won't get lots of trade it should get a bit more income as a city.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 08-01-2009 @ 07:40 AM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 04 August 2009 00:10 EDT (US)     41 / 93       
Don't double post people - it's naughty.

Turn 28

The charade of the Turk/Venice duopoly continues - There have been a number of claims by both sides that Venice has sunk a load of Turkish ships. There are no pictures of it, which is undeniable proof that it didn't happen. If there had been pictures then that'd be undeniable proof that they'd stooped so low as to fake some pictures given that it didn't happen I see no circular argument.
nothing compared to what Hoppy just did to my entire fleet. All kisses and alliance on one turn, and bam! Betrayal on the next turn.

Lets see, I lost 3 stacks of my most elite troops, which means I have very little Jihading troops left (the six stack rant was just a bluff), and even if I can train them, I have a grand total of 3 ships out of 14 I had. The chance of me taking Sicily is now close to nil. I said "close to nil" because it is a Mongol's nature to never give up the target even after a bloody loss. However, the losses were entirely due to Venice's back-stabbing so let me say something to Hoppy first.
That's a load of cobbler's - see picture for the fleet that Bandito denies having and the army that he no longer has...

And look at the captain who found him - it's Gonzo! the King of Spain rides to our aid in ways unexpected. Ok, it's a silly coincidence (particularly as the King of Spain isn't called Gonzo outside of Sicily's messages really) but it made me smile.

Less amusing was the sort of confirmation that the Venetian stack is heading south:

The factors leading me to believe that it's coming to attack Naples are:
1. This is Hoppy we're talking about
2. Hoppy encouraged me to leave troops in the north to defend against England/Spain - helping anyone who wants to attack the south (I didn't listen to him but without a boat it'll be two turns before my half stack spare in the north reaches Naples)
3. Bandito tried to imply the stack was headed back to him - which is senseless other than to try and help his ally (Hoppy) get a surprise attack
4. Hoppy is blatantly playing with Bandito rather than against him

Unfortunately I didn't have the nerve to attack Hoppy's fleet - with equal numbers I'd have been incredibly lucky to sink it and a pissed off Hoppy may not be better for me than a less annoyed one. I probably should have blocked him though - I'll regret that no doubt.

The only message I received this turn was from England:

EoJ's Spain has apparently negotiated a bit with England and allayed its fears about me and Venice - when I get attacked in a turn or two it'll add rather more credence to that.

Preparations for the invasions are going so-so. Naples and Gonzolia are up to half-stacks and both have reinforcements en-route, although both reinforcements will probably be too late. I sort of expect Venice to arrive with a second army from somewhere too as there were only 4 merc units available (2x crossbows, 2x spears) indicating maybe someone else had recruited them. I took 2 crossbows and plan to take the spears next turn if they're still there - alas I couldn't afford it in turn 28 due to financial pressures. The coffers are still emptying which is a shame, but losing cities would be worse I think...
If I can recruit again next turn (i.e. if the cities are neither under siege or entirely lost) then taking mercs into account Naples should get up to a 3/4 stack on its own. I'm half tempted to empty Naples now and just try and pillage my way through Venice's lands, but that's sort of defeatist. Combining that with sinking the fleet (and so the full stack) could have worked but there we go.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 08-04-2009 @ 00:17 AM).]

The Great Monty
(id: Monty501)
posted 04 August 2009 00:20 EDT (US)     42 / 93       
Not looking good at all!
I suggest you hurry to take Timbuckto and fortify that area.

I will fight for Total War Heaven.

Will You?
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 09 August 2009 15:28 EDT (US)     43 / 93       
That may be a plan - Timbuktu is under siege - see

Turn 29

The game is really hotting up for Sicily, plenty of 'do or die' moments shortly to come.

I've probably chosen the 'die' route, but I'll discuss that more below.

Messages - nothing interesting this turn
pictures to come
Spain's was a bit odd though - I half wonder whether he'll betray Sicily. Bandito has made some hints (fairly blatently) that EoJ is feeding him information, I don't know if that makes it more or less likely to be true. If Spain does betray Sicily then you can be sure that Sicily will be as single-minded as a woman scorned - indeed a woman scorned but in charge of a fairly large army...

I've moved on Bologna, sort of treading on Spain's toes (see above) but not entirely given the pope told him off for fighting with HRE. I should have moved that army south - I'm sort of gambling here which is always scary but that just livens things up. If Spain is going to betray me then it'd be good to get it over with quickly. If Venice goes for Naples then there's a chance I can successfully defend and in any case there's an army near Venice (at Bologna) now. If I can take the settlement then I'll try to steer clear of 'Bolognaise' type names - but would appreciate suggestions of any readers of this thread.

Anyway, I've mentioned Venice so here's the 'path of doom' I've chosen. Venice's army hasn't landed and was in range of my fleet. I could have attacked and with an admiral on board should have won - sinking that fleet would put a very large hole in Venice's army. The northern Sicilian force could then have struck at Milan. That may not knock Venice out of the game, but it'd be very hard for it to deal with if the Turks are really fighting it. If they aren't then such an attack could have prompted it to start.

I chose not to.

After the turn I checked and reloaded the game, tested it and indeed the fleet sank, the army died, it would have gone my way. Meh, I assumed that anyway. But I chose not to do it. - I don't regard that as cheating either as it had no effect on the course of the game other than setting my mind at ease (ish) -

Probably the wrong plan, but we don't want to make things too easy for Turkey now.

Timbuktu was under siege at the end of turn 27. I may not have mentioned it. This turn, I decided not to splash out on the extra troops I'd need to be sure of victory. The siege should weaken the defenders and soon, one way or another, I should have more cash to devote on it.

A princess has come of age, we'll see if anyone has heirs (I doubt it) or indeed if anyone wants anything to do with Sicily (I doubt it more).

The plan is to hold on and see what happens. If nothing for a while, we'll move some forces against an agressor. Maybe helping out Venice against the Turks, maybe not. We'll see...

Turn 30
Well, stabbing Venice in the back would have been effective - the Turks really seem to be going at it and have taken Constanstinople etc. There also wouldn't have been tonnes of downside (so far) as Venice looks to be on it's knees already - it seems Hoppy left his empire fairly hollow.

Bandito is being all nice and peaceful to other players in the run up to turn 32-33 when the crusade option opens up. He's offering to try and avoid attacking me on the jihad etc and has offered (by email not diplomat) a weird settlement transfer where he'd temporarily take Gonzolia and I'd get lots of cash for trusting him. But trust him I do not so we'll not be going there.

The risky plan as it is is to get ready for a crusade, moving armies away from the jihad target and nearby naples. Frankly sicily's military is handy but too blasted expensive so something risky needs to be done. There are a lot of Spanish troops around at the moment and either they'll be true to their word or there's a whole heap of crossing going on.

Timbuktu falls to Sicily, Bologna is left undersiege as I don't trust my forces to win - it's fairly evenly matched army wise and HRE's faction leader is in there which will help them.

Turn 31

Work starts on Timbuktu (now called 'George' after a suggestion from the missus) to build some mines - that'll help the old cash-flow I hope.

There was quite a gap between the turns and I sort of forgot quite where all the armies/fleets were going - so I've shuffled things some more. Bologna remains besieged while I move some more units towards it.

Hoppy has gone AWOL as Venice and jubuorangie has stepped in - hopefully he'll get a nice short nickname soon. The worry is that he'll try to make Venice survive by being peaceful with the Turks, despite what that did for Hoppy...

Very little dramatic happened other than a minor fight with some pirates - quite a risky one as they had loads of ships and Spain had an army on it's ship. We lost (it was huge odds against us so not suprising) but both Spain and Sicily kept their ships and the pirates were hugely weakened - alas that was only one of two fleets they had so there's still a lot of potential problem for spain. Still, they've got two half stacks led by family members in/near italy now - one on a boat, one near Florence - let's hope they all go east nice and swiftly...

Turn 32

Look, see pictures, I said they'd be back.

Venice looks horridly like it's under the thumb of the Turks - that's not at all good. What we need is a revengeful thrust through the core of the Turks. Pah.

Bologna falls and is renamed Ermintrude. Odd you may think, but it is near Florence and so it seemed to sort of follow. If something happens whereby I get some more of Northern Italy, I may make it more obvious by going for Dougal, Zebedee etc

Another poor round for the treasury, but if the forecast (helped by looting of 700 and selling map info to the pope for 900) is right then the treasury is bouncing back. Corruption is a pain in the bum over in the west, most of my nice mining income seems like it'll go that way.

Still, merchant trade should be unaffected and that'll be rather nice to have.

Hopefully the crusade will be ready on T33, sending troops off will be risky - but I have a cunning plan...

Turn 33

THE CRUSADE!! still isn't ready. Ho hum

The Princess somethingorother of Sicily had been offered to the other players, but noone expressed interest. Pah. Seeing a quite suitable chap rocking up as a possible suitor seemed quite a good plan, particularly given the need for chaps to go off on crusade at some point. So we took him.

Then a mission failed notification came up, apparently I could have married her off to another family member - I hope the prize wouldn't have been too good.

Messages in the turn weren't too revealing. By email there's been a lot more plotting and Venice is being played quite well it seems - he's not committing to either side really. If he's peaceful for another 4-5 turns Bandito will get quite confused - we'll have to see how the crusade planning committee get on.

I was going to put a couple more pictures up here, but as I need to arrange a sub maybe I'll just send them to him - if anyone is reading this regularly (and not posting - bah, I shake my fist in your general direction) then sorry but you can have suspense rather than know my (not very) cunning plan.

Clearing off a small group of rebels got another quite good general offered to Sicily - quite a spate of the little blighters this turn.

Spain has landed an army on Sicily - hopefully temporarily - and has another up near Gelatolia. Ideally they're just resting there and waiting for a crusade, if things turn nasty then I've a problem in Gelatolia but Gonzolia should be fine as it's quite well defended.

Finances are bouncing back nicely with Bologna in Sicilian hands (and many fewer sicilians being paid due to losing a fair number during the fight) and mines in the south west. Corruption is a big problem down there, sucking out half the income, hopefully the merchant trade will avoid that and law providing buildings will reduce it rather.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 09-06-2009 @ 09:15 AM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 25 September 2009 07:49 EDT (US)     44 / 93       
Time for another bump I think, seeing as Bandito just posted on his write-up

Turn 34
Glacier Girl played this turn for me while I was off holidaying - nothing too strange seemed to have happened but I haven't had more information from Glacier Girl. I'll just assume no messages were sent or received :0)

I may post up my instructions to Glacier Girl here once the 'secret info' is a little bit less so (yes, I've skimmed over some parts on this write-up).

Turn 35

the CRUSADE!!! was actually available this turn - seemingly quite late in the day but it's there.

England had been harping on about the need for action and saying it had three armies already moving etc etc so I plumped for it and asked the pope to launch a crusade.

Guessing that Bandito would somehow think it was me (particularly if Venice told him it hadn't been launched by its turn, which was quite likely) I confessed fully to Bandito. I'll attach the message below at some point later if I saved it.

EoJ was somewhat shocked by my full disclosure, to the point of sort of mocking me - but it wasn't for nothing (will explain below).

Venice had attacked the pope in turn 34 I think, maybe turn 35, and worrying had a fleet with army on board south of Naples. Attacking Florence is one thing, but I'd rather not have a Venetian Rome - we'll have to see how things go. Losing trade with Venice would be pricey and we're all still hoping at some point Venice will join in against the Turks.

A corn market (as in grain for those of you who've been corrupted by 'new speak', pah) was started in Timbuktu and should be able to pump out merchants (unaffected by the silly level of corruption in the region).

Meanwhile - between turns... (ok that's not meanwhile, err 'later' then)

Bandito was very nice about the whole 'you started a crusade against me' matter. Possibly because I played innocent and implicated Spain in pressuring me, possibly because of the sheer awsomeness of Sicily. Probably the first option then.
Subject: Ahoy, Swampy.

Dear Don, let us rejoice for the hard won peace between us. I shall trust you when you said you had no choice but to declare a Crusade against me. I further appreciate your assurance that you will stay back from the Crusades and let the others do the work. After all, I had stayed true to my words--no settlement of yours came under attack, and none will be. The peace came at just the right moment and I hope we both will cherish it.

It was unfortunate that the Spanish planned to attack me from your lands and I was forced to engage them. I cannot afford to trust EoJ (you are the only Christian faction I have confidence in) when his stack is so far from his lands and so near mine--I hope you understand. I know he is your ally but I need to defend my Balkan possessions.

PS: Could you move your ship barring the channel near Istanbul? It is rather bothersome.
It also turns out that the Turks had sent an army to destroy the Spanish stack near Naples.

Turn 36

A turn of choices - to sink Bandito's boats and let Spain fight the full stack, to go for Bandito's peace offer?

After a good deal of thought (having loaded the save, looked around and then quit the game to eat) I appologised to Bandito, loaded the game and attacked him with my fleets - and cunningly (or is that 'stupidly?) my reserve stack I'd been keeping on Sicily using my general there (recently married in - rather a good general and one I'd rather not lose) on crusade. A fairly resounding victory, huzzah.

It may be a fairly suicidal move given the overwhelming power the Turks can probably throw forward - but the Spanish stack was led by the great Gonzo, king of the Spanish. Could we really let the father-in-law of the Sicilian king be killed on our lands? Any good king knows the nagging he'd get from his missus for doing that.

So, panic ensued, including changing Sicliy's name to denote it as the 'doomed avenger' poncey but probably quite accurate. Troops are being raised as quickly as possible, which is hard given the lack of funds and low level cities (Naples is almost up to 12k population to let it be a minor city rather than large town, but only just so it'll be another few turns before it can get much further).

- after the turn (I'll give up on the separate headings) Bandito seemed amazingly to still offer peace.

I then pointed out that one of the ships I'd sunk had his diplomat on (which a great song and dance had been made about on the forum). He was less than amused, but still offered peace. Does he just trust me? Do I trust him? What could he be plotting? How will our heros escape from this dastardly situation? Tune in next week, same bat time, same bat channel, to fund out.

I took loads of screen shots so will add some if I get around to it

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 09-26-2009 @ 05:29 AM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 07 October 2009 02:29 EDT (US)     45 / 93       
Oops, I seem to have missed off turn 37 and 38 - err I'll see what I can remember or find in the picture draw...

Turn 37
EoJ moved his forces south and there was sort of a stand off - EoJ's army got quite close to my surprise (see next turn), hmm, maybe that was turn 38.

Not sure what happened on turn 37 then.

Turn 38

The 'surprise' I mentioned a while previously in the thread was unveiled early.

I'd been sneaking (well, walking) a crusading army along the Libyan coast. The original plan was to use three generals and recruit mercs on the way, to end with three fullish stacks to take Egypt with.

That would have maybe worked fine if the blasted regions I was planning on them crossing would allow Christian nations to recruit mercs...

Instead there's one stack of 16 or 17 units there and the other generals left to go north. Pah.

Anyway, EoJ decided to park his crusading army quite close to mine and bam Bandito found it.

Still, he's offered peace if I don't move it. In other areas, Venice has promised to attack the Turks, so my northern armies have carried on towards the north east of Italy and will head to the Turks that way.

Turn 39
Ok, I cracked, it's all out war with the Turks. Very much an uphill struggle but it'll maybe make him commit rather than faffing around at the edges.

I've not got much idea where Bandito's forces are - apart from one quite weak stack on his main fleet.

Soon they should be enjoying nice Sicilian Limoncello (a very good drink, even if it's probably mainly from Sorento not Sicily). I have a feeling that Bandito may be reluctant to end his jihad, which could make things interesting. I can't really afford to lose Naples or Gonzolia but there we go.

I somehow seem to not have a picture of my northern forces, which is unfortunate. There are two stacks, each at 16 or so units, so a little room for improvement, just around the corner from Venice. Those are going towards the north west corner of the Turkish lands. I'll be stopping in forts where I can afford to as Bandito will assassinate the family members at some point so the chaps will leave the crusade if not in a fort (hopefully the fort works to stop that).

Gonzolia has 16 units, mainly spear units but mostly the lower grade ones unfortunately. Naples is better off with 17 better, and better armoured, units.

Turn 40

Turn 40 found Tripoli under siege. It would have been nice to relieve it but even with the crusade it'd have been just out of reach (he sneakily picked the back of the castle to attack from.

In the desert the stacks of both sicily and spain had assasinations - leaving the men on their own. sicily's were in a fort and Spain's werent - meaning that ours won't desert (there's a trick to keep in the cupboard - don't leave crusaders outside of forts/towns if there are assassins about). I picked east for the stack and it's making its way slowly to egypt - not much it can do on its own but it can try.

In the north the two stacks are heading in land and picking up some mercenaries.
Venice is looking like it's posing more against the Turks than it was, which is always nice. Still, it left its army in easy killing position - if he's genuinely against the Turks rather than being part of a plan to lure us into the assassin pit that is Turkey then he's got a funny way of launching an attack.

England has a lot of forces in the crusade. Two good stacks (each with two generals) in Italy and another next to Spain.

Things could go well, still Gonzolia is still under threat as we don't control the seas - being able to make only 2 units in a city/port per turn is quite limiting here...

The coffers are balanced for now and the two main (and most threatened) cities will be upgraded ovecr the next few turns, subject to being captured or otherwise snuffed out

inbetween turns
it looks like Bandito has gotten wind that England could do nasty damage to him - he's offering peace
not sure whether the surrender of cities is meant to buy time (say 10 turns until the next jihad if he called this one off) or just cause division between his attackers
I don't trust him to call off the jihad, so have propositioned him with "i'll do it if you do". I don't currently have plans either way about complying with it if he does call the jihad off - I might just accept it and be happy. I can't see him agreeing to go first though...

Turn 41

Well, the Jihad is still on and we're still moving east.

Venice is being played this turn by a sub, which is nice of him but his message is a bit worrying. Firstly because a sub really ought to follow the intent of the main player (i.e. to attack the Turks) and secondly because I want him to attack the Turks.

One of the two northern armies had a lot of desertion - not quite sure why but it's a pain in the bum certainly. They've not been given a fort this time as they're not too far from home and not a great loss if they all desert. The other northern army is still en route east.

Bandito left Tripova without a garrison having taken it from us. The general at Gonzolia still thought he was on crusade and could reach Tripova in a single movement - so he did.

Yes, it's a trap. Whilst he's a good general and one I'd rather not lose, he's probably enough of an idiot to walk into traps like that. He just has that look about him. Maybe it'll confuse Bandito a little.

Interestingly there's a bit of an army leaving Egypt to come and get my spear units in the desert. It looks like it's probably good enough to win. Probably.

Sicily's rankings are still excellent for military and quite poor in all other areas. I view that as something of an achievement, but probably not one to be too proud of as it's clear that I can't really afford the military I've got (currently only one full stack on crusade too - so that's a bit embarrassing)

Turn 42
It was a trap, Bandito returned and besieged the foolish general - who sallied and didn't manage to kill anyone. What a waste...

I put together a semi-mighty fleet and headed out to the open sea.

Turn 43
The semi-mighty fleet had been flattened. Hmm, time to build a Mighty Fleet...

English and Spanish fleets were spotted carrying significant armies to battle. Except, they were spotted in places that basically just spell doom for those fleets. even the semi-mighty fleet that Bandito sank was better than these attempts.

Turn 44
Sicily lives for another turn!

I wonder if we'll make it to 50

One English fleet limps on, we throw away some ships trying to help it - they're all doomed.

Hopefully this army is out of sight of the castle - it's only really there as a distraction anyway.

This army is now probably within Bandito's sight - it's probably also not going to get much further...

Turn 45

Surprisingly enough, England lost its fleet (and the army on board) - apparently it also lost both crusading armies in the Balkans too. Now that's quite worrying.

On the nearest coast, Durazzo was turned to a castle and gifted by the Turks to the Polish. Ragusa was besieged and so I sent a spy and assassin to help - but the knife missed. Oops.

Turn 46
A suitable chap shows up for Dea - he's not brilliant but since Spain and England can't take her he'll just have to work on becoming worthy of the lovely Dea - he's got age on his side there.

Arguin fell to Sicily, that'll teach them to hide in the corner.

The failed assassin showed the way to find the army that had been besieging Ragusa, and the grand Sicilian fleet launched.

Alas, a little bit of hunting (as summarised below) shows Bandito's fleets within range of Sicily's are in total larger. Balls. If we'd held back another turn then another 3 war galleys might have saved the day. Still, he'll need to divert some land forces too to counter mine there. I had to drop off the ballista really to get there, that might follow in a turn or two, but could depend on the shipping movements.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 12-31-2009 @ 01:07 PM).]

HG Alumnus Superbus
posted 01 May 2010 04:59 EDT (US)     46 / 93       
Unarchived. No peeking on my part.

And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 01 May 2010 05:36 EDT (US)     47 / 93       
Huzzah, thank you - peeking would have meant someone other than me reading this, which wasn't too likely...

Moaning aside, time for a brief update on the last 9 turns. I did take pictures for most of these but just never posted them here. Ho hum.

Turns around 47-49ish

Bandito agreed to peace, strangely. He'd offered it for some reason, I was, reasonably enough, confused and a bit agitated by that and besieged him in Corinth and Sarkel (I can't remember if I mentioned my army sneaking around the Black Sea). Despite that he agreed to peace anyway.

The crusade was called off by all parties, with England dragging its feet. Before the peace Bandito knocked off the army in Corinth, I pulled back the Sarkel army as part of the deal. Alas I fluffed up the 'put the men in a fort' by leaving the general inside too, so they all still deserted before the crusade was cancelled. Still, that leaves a lone general to wander through Russia etc, it'll only take 40 turns to walk home probably...

The deal reassigned Tripoli to me. The peace continues to be confusing given Bandito's apparently strong position.

Turns around 50-51
Since the outbreak of peace with the Turks, the patchwork of factions in Italy became suddenly vexing.

The sensible course of action remained to sit back and build up cities etc, so of course I launched a lightning strike against Venice. Frankly I thought I'd written that up here, but obviously not (or the thread was archived already or something).
Rome and Florence fell in one turn, thanks to spies - the odds of infiltration got up to over 100% on some of the cities (I think) which was nice. Florence took a couple of attempts because I underestimated the strength of the defenders in autoresolve - fortunately I had a number of armies to hand and the second attack against weakened defenders came off better.

Milan had to wait as having tasted the ease with which autoresolve let the heavily outnumbered defenders crush the assault meant a larger attack was needed.

Turns 51ish to 53
Milan was rolled over in a reasonably successful attack, leaving only Venice being unfriendly on the Italian mainland.
Venice is a tricky beast as it has only one route to attack - meaning at most one full stack can assault the city. Venice (the nation) defended the city with a full-stack itself, so direct assault would be difficult.

The main options left seemed to be:
1. Attack in series with stack after stack after stack until Venice fell (which would happen eventually as by this stage England had joined the war against Venice and Venice had run entirely out of cash)

2. Use assassins to cause a riot - with three Sicilian spies in the city and at least one Spanish spy, order was down at 85% already

3. Negotiate

4. Ignore Venice (the city) and press on against other targets

I chose 3. with a back-up plan of 4.

4. would have been more interesting, since it involved war and forced conquering. The plan would have been to leave a full stack guarding (but not besieging) Venice and march other armies to more poorly defended cities.

At some point around these turns, Bandito vanished, rather unfortunately. Zsmart one was drafted in as a replacement, but it means we'll never know if there was a cunning plan behind the Turkish peace deal.

The Treaty of Zagreb
Venice was on the ropes it seemed, giving it little incentive to accept 'reasonable' peace terms (i.e. me taking what I wanted and promising to stop attacking it).

On that basis I proposed the following terms:
1. I would pay a whopping 4,000 per turn for 10 turns;
2. Venice would give me Venice and Ragusa, and so a nice stable border
3. Zagreb would be handed over to the Spanish
4. I'd be good and not do another sneak attack

After a bit of negotiation and discussion with Spain, this changed point 2. involving the passing of Venice and Zagreb, and 3. involving Ragusa and Vienna passing to Spain (for an additional fee).

Venice was left with fewer cities - but had in previous turns already demolished a lot of the buildings for cash, leaving them relatively poor cities - Venice (the city) did not even have a port by turn 53...

This whole thing may pee off England who, having been dragged into the war is now on its tod against a Venice funded by both me and Spain. Oops. Still, there's info to pass over etc, what little consolation that will be.

England has the advantage in funding (for now) and territory, so it should prevail - one to watch though.

Turn 55

The Treaty was agreed, and territory passed to me. Huzzah.

On the domestic front, warehouses are being built in the Italian dock areas and trade should boom in the next 5 turns, with cities getting up to at least 4k income. It's not been fast getting there, but things are on the up - hopefully.

There's also a prospect of a cold war with tonnes of agents around, if the peace holds it'll only get worse. Fun and games to come...

Turn 56
The agent war continues, there's a lot of fleet activity and possible friction with the Turks

England and Venice are still chomping at each other, Spain is still playing with shipping and that might be about it.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 05-09-2010 @ 07:40 AM).]

posted 09 May 2010 17:38 EDT (US)     48 / 93       
It sucks bandito's gone, he was kind of dominating, but at least that helps you out (he's a tricky one.) Is the plan now to go to war with Venice again in a few turns or change it up and attack England? They're probably the most dangerous right now.
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 10 May 2010 04:24 EDT (US)     49 / 93       
Someone posting in my thread? what madness is this? :0)

There's no current plan for war, at least not on my part, with anyone - Venice would be the obvious target but the Turks would probably get involved if I took much more of the lands in that direction. England is under pressure but miles away and unless Spain joined in too I'd not want to go there. Of course, if Spain did want to join in then it'd be rude not to help out.

There are an awful lot of spies and assassins about, in one of the pictures in the turn 56 post you should be able to see the end of a level 6 or 7 Turkish assassin - there's a level 10 chap just north of Venice, so all the family members about there have retreated until I can deal with that one. My top assassin only has a 60% chance of dealing with him.

Just because Bandito is gone, don't rule out the Turks doing interesting things. If Zsmart has any idea how to sort out the Mongols (given he's inherited level 10 assassins he might have the hint...) then he can be expected to roll west at some point. If I can keep on spending on civil things for the next 6 or so turns then I should be able to afford a significantly expanded military (probably over three full stacks up on where I am now I reckon). The next war will be a big one...
posted 10 May 2010 16:40 EDT (US)     50 / 93       
Yeah i read the thread whenever i'm on (not often anymore) you and EOJ seem to be getting along well though, surprising since you guys are so close together. I always have trouble raising up asssassins as I don't use them much its crazy that Bandito managed to get so many high leveled assassins.
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