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Total War Heaven » Forums » Medieval 2 Multiplayer Discussion and Hotseat Forum » [Hotseat A] Sicily hotseat campaign
Topic Subject:[Hotseat A] Sicily hotseat campaign
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M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 18 January 2009 13:40 EDT (US)         
This is where I'll document the progress of Sicily in the forum hotseat campaign. Given the game is over, all other players are welcome to read my write up now, such that it is.

My current plan is to play Sicily as a trade nation, intent not on crushing people but on being profitable.

Expansion will be first south and then east and maybe west - the small settlements north of Sicily (I'll add the names here later when I remember what they are / write them down) always seem to be a bit slow to develop every time I've come across them, still I may grab them if I can anyway.

I plan to ally with Venice and trade with EoJ's Spain. For now at least :0)

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 01-18-2013 @ 01:28 PM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 19 May 2010 15:24 EDT (US)     51 / 93       
Once you get an assassins headquarters and other master assassins guilds they seem to be able to churn out the blighters at level 7 or more. That could be quite a challenge...

I've been keeping more up to date than of late with the write-up but feel I should leave some delay in here incase of unfair spying. Not that I suspect anyone would read this without permission...

Anyway, here's the one from a couple of turns ago. Please anyone reading this feel free just to post a spam-like "hello" from time to time even if you've nothing more to say...

Turn 57
Spain has been a naughty country and dragged us back into war with the Turks; *sigh*

The finances are jumping up a little now, with trade increasing around 2k from a couple of turns ago, with more improvements expected over the coming turns.

Sicily is doing reasonably in some areas of the rankings, funding-wise though the Turks are storming away. They've got a diplomat at Gonzolia, either he needs to go or that needs to become, once again, the Sicilian capital to prevent it from being bribed away. It's too good to lose

The agent battle continues, with two top Turkish assassins (10 and 9 eyes) falling. An assassins guild should help train some good bad men.

Elsewhere, England defeated a Venetian stack, but was then itself defeated by more Venetians - alas my spy got carried away with spying and he now sleeps with the fishes

I revceived some insight into the Spanish plans for the game, but not much that's useful.
Subject: RE: Spain 57
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 15:00:37 +0000

I'd rather stay as England's supporter. Not only is it a very useful alliance, but due to the treaty of Zagreb, Venice's armies are heading north to England's lands and grinding him a wee bit. I'm willing to let Venice hurl itself at England and do damage to both parties while we faithfully keep the treaty and do other stuff, until either England is rather weak and so we swallow France and Germany (dibs on France), or more likely we rampage and take the weak balkans.

You may notice I put 'other stuff'. I want to keep at the Turks- the shipping incidents indicates to me that he's no intention of actually keeping it long term. The problem is Bandito set up a decent defence in Greece (take a look- forts all over the place), so I'll need to develop my armies to bastard levels to take Greece and hurl the bugger out of Europe again.

So, the Turks will keep me occupied. Venice/England won't have a clear winner for a while, though if it does it'll be around the time I start pumping out units I think. So my timetable for the next few turns are-
1) get Ragusa (and Vienna) as bases of operations
2) Refit the fleet
3) Infiltrate Greece
4) Build a decent army
5) ...
6) Profit!
Venice wasn't much more revealing
Turn done. In game i will message you saying that there are none of my agents near your cities as to my knowledge. I sent that at the start of the turn, by the end i had an assassin nearish Baby Bern, no bad intentions but i clicked on an English Character in the Alps but he was apparently blocked so he tried taking the long route. According to finance scroll, a dodgy source but as good as any i possess, i will receive an influx of cash next quarter and for the first time in too long i'll have money to spend . I don't much info for you. There is a spanish assassin near Ragusa and in a message the Turks mentioned something about a Fleet in the adriatic but i assume you would already know more about this than i. I will keep my eyes and ears open though, supposing you are willing to reciprocate.
He might find his assassin can't be found. Oops.
posted 25 May 2010 20:28 EDT (US)     52 / 93       
Keep up the good work. Can i call you swampy?
Anyways, try to surprise turkey with a trick little maneouvre from the nile delta, over into the red sea with merc galleys, then up through the desert and pop out of nowhere into Anatolia. Coordinate with EoJ and maybe even Venice so that you can get him on two fronts. This wouldbe easiest with a Quartermaster and explorers guild so your people can move faster.
Oh, and yes i am posting in this thread.

Don't go hunting with Dick Cheney. Don't go hunting with a bear. Don't go questioning the sense of my sig. Solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 26 May 2010 14:23 EDT (US)     53 / 93       
Thank you
Can i call you swampy?
Unless you've somehow got my phone number and mean that - sure thing. It wasn't you trying to sell me double glazing was it?

Turn 58 (and 59)


Spying runs, Venice has only a small force after taking Innsbruck castle:

Turn 58 suddenly became turn 59 as everyone played the turn on the same day

Trade income is increasing in-line with the grand master plan, unfortunately spending is still matching it. Curses.

My main trading areas are around the west coast of Italy, nicely summarised here:

So long as the general I have sat on the northern island stays alive he should get them up to large towns, which will help with boosting trade further.
Unfortunately Gelatolia is the closest city I have to being huge, it's on something like 18.9k population. Once that and the other cities around that coast get to being large they might all get another 1k or so income. It all adds up.

Agent fees are getting stupendously high, at this rate they'll catch up the armed forces...

England is making noises about pushing back against Venice properly. It could be interesting to see. England has been quite a disappointing force so far - possibly because it's been fighting rather large armies with Venice and the Turks.
posted 01 June 2010 12:35 EDT (US)     54 / 93       
Please anyone reading this feel free just to post a spam-like "hello" from time to time
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 04 June 2010 17:37 EDT (US)     55 / 93       
Ahh, hello, see - isn't that better than me just talking to myself?

Turn 60

The turn began promisingly with a non-character princess snatching some rather loyal noble chap. I personally rate loyalty quite highly when accepting these chaps, the chivalry and reasonable age all helped too.

It's a shame the swine turned up in the most distant and pointless part of the empire then. Pah

Venice was fairly unhelpful with intelligence this turn, leaving me to spy on my own:

There's a reasonable size Venetian army (although smaller than a few turns ago) and a Polish settlement

A little bit of assassination never did anyone any harm (eh?)

Turn 61

Given the need for spies, I've sacrificed the trade potential of a merchant guild in Venice for a spy guild - now up to a master guild. It'll still be a while before Venice gets a brothel or higher though, now that's bad planning (and a demonstration of why there should be a "building_present" restriction for spy guilds...)

There's a Venetian army near where England seems to have taken a settlement - looking back at the previous turn's pictures it seems that the Poles held it then - I can't remember where it was before that, I have a feeling it was Venetian.

Or maybe not, the Poles are still there. Given the several armies about, the Venetians are still a threat it seems.

...which could be why there has been some email chatter about something that's just become available again:

If the treaty of Zagreb weren't in force then joining a crusade against the heretics (for who could doubt that the cardinals we elect to support our wars are truly the only representatives of God?) would be rather handy. It'd be interesting to see what the Turks would do.

A flash attack on Spain (with their jihad being available) would be sneaky but hard to pull off. There would need to be some serious fleet and army coordination going on.

I show some muscle to the Spanish spy

I plan to reinforce the border with Turkey - you can just see in that picture a spy (top left) out of range of my assassins. With a family member (subject to Turkish assassins) there a few watchtowers will come in handy.

I plan to move some spies etc down to Africa/Egypt too - the sneak attack idea is reasonable but if there are any Turkish spies about (quite likely) then it'll be short lived and probably suicidal. England briefly seemed to be on a new warpath against the Turks after an assassination, however that's turned suddenly into an "I'll attack him later" phase.
posted 09 June 2010 21:15 EDT (US)     56 / 93       
Keep up the good work!
Could i get some tips for the hotseat i am starting (player and admin wise).
Maybe you should try to destabilize Greece and then attack rebels using the pretext of "If you cant defend your people, I will".

What i mean is spies/priest to cause disorder then assassins to bring down Jamas, Inns and the likes. That would show him...

Don't go hunting with Dick Cheney. Don't go hunting with a bear. Don't go questioning the sense of my sig. Solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
posted 23 June 2010 20:07 EDT (US)     57 / 93       
Noticed that i had last post, so there won't be anything new in here. I think my reign as Grand-Vizier has come to an end in this hotseat (i'm leaving for reasons of international conferences shutting down half my city... bloody g20, AND an earthquake...), so i'm going to continue reading your AAR now. Also, i didn't take advantage of any prior information gained through the AAR,so you have absolutely no need to worry about me using the Turkish military to infiltrate all of your defenses and Seize all of Italy.

Oh wait.

Never mind that last part...

Don't go hunting with Dick Cheney. Don't go hunting with a bear. Don't go questioning the sense of my sig. Solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 26 June 2010 03:59 EDT (US)     58 / 93       
It's good to have a person willing to post able to read this again - I guess you might pop off and sub for the Turks again in the future at some point, but I'll not let that affect this thread (it's not entirely up to date anyway)

A couple of turns at once here:

Turn 62

This turn was quite agent focused, with lots of spying etc. The Turks have a large army nearish my border to the east - I had a peek to see what my assassins could achieve if it got closer...

I turned down a thieves' guild on Calamari, there's no point it being there really. It's bad enough having one in Venice without a brothel - at least that's on the right land mass to be useful eventually though.

Venice has a decent size army moving out of Bran - looking at the English over to the west and at the Polish (who are currently mainly defensive - although seeing as that army is hiding maybe someone will attack thinking the town is weak?) they will need it. Then there's the on-going lack of papal approval.

Selifator, EoJ and I have discussed the possibility of a crusade against Venice / Turkey. It looks like it will happen, and soon, with England being the main beneficiary. Given the diplomat that Venice has around the pope (who is next to Marseilles) it's almost conceivable that he could pay to be reconciled before it gets called...

I found a few Turks and paid them visits where possible.

Here's a picture of Florence's trade info - I'll show it again in a few turns after the road is finished etc, just because I can.

Turn 63

EoJ correctly noticed that the large Turkish army hovering near the border had vanished from view - I don't know quite where it had gone, but I couldn't find it during the turn. Ooh err missus indeed.

And the Crusade is launched against Venice - poor Venice

Venice seems to be rushing its army west from Bran, will it get to Budapest in time? Will it have a chance against the English? Probably not. Still, he's putting on a good show.

The Turks really would spice things up - I don't really know if I want them to get involved, but it'd be interesting. I could imagine a meat grinder over the remains of Venice with English and Turkish armies merrily attacking each other - in a haze of assassins.
My payments to Venice under the Treaty of Zagreb will end soon - yay - then Venice really will be screwed financially. England is at least helping it out there by crushing the Venetian armies, but that's not too useful.

I'll have to think up a plan for the Turks, even if it's just to deceive Hashoosh

Turn 64

Horrid news - Deisco En Ferno has the plague - total income falls by around 3k. Ouch. I wonder if biological warfare is an exploit, or just a cunning way of closing off Turkish trade/population growth? If the spies could live long enough to get there anyway...

Newer Carthage gets an improved guild - a merchant's guild would have been better, but since I went for this one upgrading seems sensible. I should probably get the hospitalliers recruited and fighting at some point.

A marriage opportunity for a good - if old - chap. Loyalty is good and since it's only a minor princess I thought 'why not' if he dies quickly there should hopefully be some more scope for replacement generals anyway. However, being right out of the way in the depth of Africa is not fun - it'll take him years to get anywhere sensible. Doh. The sooner the roads get upgraded the better...

Still, he can join in on the effort to remove those pesky rebels.

Interesting messages from the Turks and Venetians. The Turkish one, even if it had sounded serious, is made less interesting by an earlier email from EoJ mentioning that the Turks had asked him about supporting an attack against me. Still, it'd be silly to ignore him so I pointed out how hard it'd be for me to intercept a massive naval invasion of Spain - particularly if the invasion was a jihad. Not an entirely awful idea, but a heck of a gamble (the jihad, not me suggesting it).

The Turkish army showed up again - a relief but also sort of dull. Is it going to help Venice I wonder.

I catch a Turkish chap having a cheeky sunbathe at Gonzolia (the one spotted a couple of turns previously - and not moved out of the way). He's enjoying it so much he probably won't turn up for work again, ever.

Somehow King Simon (once on about 6 chivalry) is known as a bit of an assassinating fiend, no idea where they got that idea from.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 07-06-2010 @ 01:14 AM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 23 October 2010 08:13 EDT (US)     59 / 93       
Hmm a few turns without posting (as well as a long pause for the last round on the hotseat - still hopefully it should be back on its feet again now.

Turn 67
Pictures I have to hand:

Turn 69
A relatively sedate turn, ending in a complete fluff up...

The castle of Zebedee (ex-Zagreb) is constructed, and now being upgraded to a fortress. It's a cunning wheeze, but there will still be a bit of a pause before we get to a citadel. As long as that's not much more than it takes to build up the barracks and armourers etc then it'll be ok. So long as war holds off long enough anyway.

The citadel should be here on turn 72 and then Norman footknights will be on the cards. They ought to do better than the bulk produced spearmen that have been the mainstay of the army so far.

She's an ungainly lass (ranking wise) but still, no disloyal people please.

EoJ is doing ok it seems, I was concerned the Turks would get Bran first.

My priestly flock and military convoy is in transit to the old Greek lands - my plan is for it to arrive in the next couple of turns, then wander around through the last vestiges of peace and following that just hop from place to place without attacking cities, just trying to occupy as much of the Turkish army as possible.

It might sound like a daft plan, but there's no way I have enough force to take, let alone take and hold, much Turkish ground currently. Having lots of agents (currently 8 priests, going up to 10 in the next couple of turns) should mean that the Turkish player can't simply sit and ignore the army and the army ought to be large enough to stand a chance against most field armies.

Other than that, the turn was relatively straight forward, smash a few Turkish buildings, do a little spying etc. There are a couple of large armies to the immediate north, one east of Bran (possibly going for Venitian lands, or Bran) and one south west of Bran.

With a good stretch of peace another Sicilian army or two should be able to gather and head to the border

Last action of the turn, let's see about the Turkish general at border...

hmm, looks like war has come early
Hopefully the Turks don't get focused against me for that, I imagine they won't do.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 10-23-2010 @ 08:20 AM).]

posted 08 November 2010 00:28 EDT (US)     60 / 93       
"My current plan is to play Sicily as a trade nation, intent not on crushing people but on being profitable."
How exactly are you going to do that, and how many players are playing the game with you, is it like a swap rome total war game?
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 08 November 2010 04:01 EDT (US)     61 / 93       
There were 5 of us in the game, England, Spain, Venice, Sicily and the Turks. Venice has given up the ghost for now so its turns are just being wasted. It's passed around like a swap-game - more information can be found here:,7543,,20

My trading plan sort of worked as I have a secure border on most sides and quite a reasonable economy with lots of trade routes around the Italian coast. However I panicked too much with the Turks looking threatening from around turn 20 (we're now on about 70) so have been running with one of the largest armed forces in the game despite only having one of the smaller empires - that puts a bit of a dampener on things.

Unfortunately for the last couple of months we've been struggling with players and we're still down a Turks player - so there's not tonnes of opportunity to see how it plays out.
posted 29 November 2010 16:01 EDT (US)     62 / 93       
(First post )
Is this hotseat dead?
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 14 January 2011 04:42 EDT (US)     63 / 93       
I'm growing increasingly convinced that archiving a thread knocks off a post or two as I thought Rubber Tooth's question had been answered. Anyway - it looks like the hotseat may be up again.
Good luck to whomever takes over Sicily.
posted 14 January 2011 13:15 EDT (US)     64 / 93       
You will not be keeping the Role, Swampy?

And here i was hoping you'd come back and win it . I have read some of what EoJ said when i was Venice and while i am not surprised i would have thought he'd hide his pragmatic bloodlust a bit more, perhaps show a bit of loyalty. After Englands blitzkrieg of my lands there is little wonder why i wouldn't support him and had Bandito stayed i'd have supported the Turks, but his successors refused to believe that he promised me the aid he did as he disappeared without a trace, subsequently they witheld most of it. Still.. Go Sicily!

60% of people use dodgy statistics in things such as forum signatures. Post this if you are part of the 50% who don't.
posted 17 January 2011 15:40 EDT (US)     65 / 93       
I'm taking over Sicily
posted 01 February 2011 15:24 EDT (US)     66 / 93       
Good luck Godfather.
posted 01 March 2011 05:22 EDT (US)     67 / 93       
This was immensly intresting, i tip my hat to you sir for engineering the downfall of europe.
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 21 June 2011 02:12 EDT (US)     68 / 93       
After TheGodfather has retired due to other commitments - I've (at least temporarily) stolen back the controls to Sicily. It means I'm running two factions but then again due to the relative size of factions Sicily and Spain sort of need to work together anyway...

Turn 75

I spent a lot of the turn looking around to see what had changed. The main thing is (as I'd helpfully informed myself about with an ingame message from Spain) is that Rome is the target of an evil jihad!

Starting with the mundane - I rejected an explorers guild and carried out a bit of work on checking/changing building queues

The trading zone around Italy should blossom soon (how many turns have I been saying that?) as the central islands are now cities and a lot of the mainland cities have become 'huge'. Unfortunately the very good administrative general that used to be in the area has gone (I couldn't see any entry for a recent death on the family tree - or any sign of him alive on the family tree - strangely) so the new walls will be at full price. Worth it though.

Agents were important this turn as the war kicked off (again) with the Turks. I cleared out a spy and assassin from the general area:

the main role was for Gelasius de Palma's crushing of the city of Mustafa - more on that soon.

Armies near Rome were sent there, it should be fully garrisoned next turn. New troops are being raised in Naples too.

There were several naval battles too

Unfortunately a lot of the Turkish ships escaped. I really would like to know how Bandito used to so effectively destroy fleets (back in the first jihad 100% of all fleets that he attacked were entirely destroyed, usually with a Spanish or English army onboard).

On to the land battles. The Spanish had attacked the Turkish army that had been sat on the border of New Outpostia, opposing the Spanish and Sicilian forces there. This left a depleted Turkish army next to Mustafa, which the Spanish had moved next to.

We attacked and defeated that army - but unfortunately that neither granted us control of the city or killed off the army. Quite cheeky of the computer there.

That left a bit of a tricky spot. Fortunately the priest bomb was part of Gelasius' army and contained a good number of spies and assassins. The first spy to try his hand at the gates had a 70% chance of success - but died in action. Having played silly bees like this before - and being able to see the Turkish general's paranoia and other security enhancing traits (having fought him) - the assassins stepped forward. Sabotaging several law enhancing buildings (such as the town hall and barracks) should make things easier. One spy made it in, huzzah! - alas the 40% chance of gate opening was not enough, so the siege was lifted and more spies tried - eventually with three spies inside (and none in the area outside, other than the heap of corpses on the floor) and a 70% chance of gate opening, the way was set for Gelasius to attack.

Mustafa fell and was sacked and renamed (back to the original, sort of). It can be seen here, along with several of the Turkish armies that might well take it back next turn (there being at least one full stack and one ballista within striking distance - plus with the jihad a lot of troops can get to the area very quickly). The picture makes it look like there's a tiny Turkish garrison in the city - but that's just their flag overlapping the Sicilian one - we have a full stack inside and 18 units outside.
[JPEG, (288.62 KB)]
posted 29 June 2011 23:52 EDT (US)     69 / 93       
Any open spots in this campaign? I don't mind taking a smaller country; this looks like a competitive/active game. =)

I have the mod retrofit and also I have kingdoms.
M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 30 June 2011 02:04 EDT (US)     70 / 93       
"Active" is an interesting way of looking at it - there have been quite a few pauses recently (it's taken about 5 months for the last 5 turns and something like 2.5 years to get to this point in total...).

Alas either of the two factions I played in turn 75 (Sicily and Spain) is up for the taking as I didn't ought to be running two. Spain and Sicily are the two smallest factions; they fairly much have to work together to avoid being crushed by the other two.

This is maybe a discussion to have in the general thread (,7543,0,20&st=1320) or by email so that I can give you more honest/complete information on both. Sicily has just kicked a big bear of a faction and can expect quite a lot of armed men to come west at it, including at least one Mongol army but probably quite a few. Spain is helping Sicily.

Having played most turns overall as Sicily I'd probably prefer to keep it and let you take Spain, but then again I've only played 1 of the last 5 Sicilian turns compared to 5 of the last 5 Spanish turns so I'm not really in a position to demand much. Depending whether we can stop focusing on the Turks at some point, Spain might also get quite interesting itself anyway.
posted 30 June 2011 16:13 EDT (US)     71 / 93       
Agreed; let's carry this over to the general discussion thread. No need to be concerned, once I begin playing this will be the last time I look at this thread.
posted 08 July 2011 17:23 EDT (US)     72 / 93       
It seams like things are going quite good for you.

And now that Spain and Sicily has ben united in an alliance, they should be as powerful as any of the other superpowers.

MY theory of bandito wining every naval batttle was that he built small bad ships and then he hid greek fire on them!!

The good news is, now I've conquered Spain, retaken my lands, and invaded Briton territory, and now they're coming to me whining that they want their cities back along with 20k denarri. Losers :P - Erynion

[This message has been edited by Rubber_Tooth (edited 07-09-2011 @ 03:19 PM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 20 July 2011 15:29 EDT (US)     73 / 93       
The Spain/Sicily alliance isn't quite that good Rubber Tooth - boorego volunteering to take over Spain has led to a huge spurt of diplomacy from him and a quite radical change in Spain's direction.

The situation of Spain and Sicily fighting Turkey alone while England strengthened its own position was unsustainable, that much was clear. As it there's been a peace deal with Spain and Turkey, with Spanish units withdrawing or disbanding. On the plus side, I've taken over the Balkans settlements from Spain - which is good so long as I can hold them.

I'll expand on that more when I get the turn 76 pictures up.

I'd expected Spain and Sicily to hold firm and in due course start taking England down a notch or two - now there's more of a dilemma...

Hopefully there's no spying across write-ups going on so I can put a decent amount of my thoughts on that here. It's that or I'll keep being vague or even mislead you.

Turn 76
Due to faffing around with some inter-turn financial comparisons, here are pictures without any narrative... slowly being added


In between turns, boorego took over Spain. There was a flurry of diplomacy, the result of which is that Spain is pulling out of the east and focusing on developing a contiguous empire.

I had expected that Spain would want to pick a fight with England at some point (given I was running Spain I had a reasonable amount of certainty in it...) but what I hadn't thought of was Spain pulling out of the east to focus on it. The advantages for Spain are clear(ish) in that with only one border to concentrate on her armies should be more effective for the same cost. However, I consider there to be some weaknesses - (1) it makes it very obvious (I think) to England that something fishy is up; (2) it leaves Sicily a bit in the lurch, especially as the force that was going to help at Rome has pulled back too - so either the Turks have it easy or if they really do focus on the English as has been promised (more on that later) then there's still an uneasy and somewhat miffed Sicily sat next to Spain.

Of course, if there is peace with the Turks, Sicily could choose to join Spain against England, there are probably some soft targets to choose from in Germany. However Turkey is a major threat (I feel) so would it be better to keep England friendly and remain neutral - or knife Spain in the side and actually support England...?

For now the position is:
- Spain gave us Spanish Adriatic and Bran in the East
- We gave Spain Marrow-Quiche
- We've taken some new territory (see battles below) - which the Turks want back
- the Turkish position is (this was discussed after turn 76 but before turn 77) that they want me to hand over Thessalonica and Corinth, they're happy to pay for the latter. In return for that, apparently there'll be peace.


I've put together a rough summary of the movement in financials over the last 20 turns. Before the windfall from extra territories this turn and last, expenses seem to have been rising quite a bit faster than income (I knew that at points, but the long term effects are more visible here)...
[JPEG, (254.89 KB)]

Sicilian merchants have made quite a few gains this turn, taking over Spanish and other merchants in a couple of places - there's quite a nice boost to cash each time, plus more income each turn from the traded assets. There's a picture of the best gain in Africa in the misc section below.


Marrowquiche was a good fit for our empire in terms of location/shape - but it suffered terribly from corruption from being so far from our capital. We'll benefit from increased income from the new settlements. Another advantage is that there's the dregs of the Moorish army (I had planned on wiping this out at turn 70 or so - but then handed over to the Godfather, who disagreed) no longer have to be displaced, so the generals and armies near there can go off to somewhere more useful.

There are a few Turkish assassins and at least one spy coming across the desert out of Egypt. Unfortunately I haven't any facilities in Libya to recruit agents etc to defend against that.


Corinth fell to the Sicilians this turn, again through a spy opening the gates. This seems to be a hugely effective mechanism, unfortunately it costs the lives of a few spies in getting enough of them in each time, so costs a fair amount. In this case, I also couldn't outnumber the Mongols by enough to make it a clean victory - 200 or so men were lost. A few extra units are on their way to arrive next turn.

There's no real chance of holding this settlement if the Turks attack it - I'd half hoped that they might not notice, but judging by the post-turn emails, that didn't work. A big shame as I could have pounced on the Turkish Irakilion settlement.

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 08-04-2011 @ 08:47 AM).]

M2TW Ladder Leader
posted 09 August 2011 02:30 EDT (US)     74 / 93       
The more posts the merrier, that's what I say, well I might say it.

Turn 77

As might be expected, this turn involved quite a bit of thought on the eastern side. The south and centre are all faring quite well. I have however noticed that foolishly I'd got the huge wall in Naples building at full price when Prince Thingy is sat in Sicily with an architect retinue - him popping over on a boat would have saved us more than a thousand florins/misc currency.

To celebrate what might be the peak of Sicily's empire, here are a few pictures of parts of it:


Nothing untoward has happened this turn, the Spanish strangely seem to ask me to attack the Turks - which is easy enough so I accept. The Turks gave a short message to ask me to give them their land back - possibly a reference to the moderately large armies stood at/near my eastern settlements.

Thessalonica has one large army next to it - which I could defend against quite happily, even though the troops are quite high quality - but there's a second army in a fort to the east (where I once had an army...)

The Turkish forces are largely comprised of these two units:

plus some Saracen spearmen or somesuch - their stats are similar to my Italian spear militias, possibly better.

The little sword chaps (hassisshshimsims or something) are quite tough little fellows; the janissary heavy infantry though does have a nice little weakness. They've got a high armour piercing attack and reasonablish armour - but crossbow bolts should go through them very nicely. The garrisons at Naples and Rome are being topped up with more crossbow militia, any spare ones will then filter through to the east - if I have anything left out there by then. The majority of units are good against cavalry, but the hashychaps would be vulnerable to it if EoJ is foolish enough to build a pure army of them.

Anyway, I digress, EoJ confirmed by email that he was happy to enter into a sale of settlements rather than taking them by force. My army will be allowed to withdraw unmolested. Hopefully he sticks with that as I would do a lot more damage from a few attacks out with that army than with one defeat (as you might lose a third to a half your men in a battle, but if that results in the remainder being lost due to being inside a settlement...). The north is a tricky one too as there's a full Turkish army near Bran and I've yet to reinforce it fully. The Spanish could defend it for me, but their army is moving away slowly, so I'm not going to rely on it.

Probably a bit of an overly grand title, but a few additional notes on what I expect the Turks to do. If I was in their position, I'd not want the jihad to pass without taking advantage of it. I would build up at least four armies led by family members in Egypt, or around the middle east, - somewhere safe - and once they're all ready to go on jihad I'd set them off. If more armies could join in later, so much the better. When up to full strength, the armies would take to the sea - targeting Naples.

With four or more full stacks landing at once, there's not much Sicily could do to resist. If any siege engines came over then it would be too late to even try to reinforce the city (although taking siege engines on crusade/jihad is always dangerous due to them slowing you down so much).

I've popped a spy down to try and see anything like that coming

Fortunately not for now, but I'll keep an eye on it if possible. There is an army possibly headed to Corinth, although that on its own wouldn't get very far.

I've started reinforcing the navy and put down a fort halfway between Rome and Naples - with a stack reinforcing it I'd hope the Naples garrison could sally out successfully if there was 2-3 armies attacking it. Still no idea really how I could defend against any more.

So, the best defence could be more attacking (yay)

There's a medium sized force in the central city - the key part being the three family members. Those chaps all popping off on a jihad could do nasty things to me. However, they all seem relatively mortal and so my assassins draw in a bit closer. Not that I ever have tonnes of success with assassins compared to a lot of people it seems - but if we need to then it might be worth a shot.

The ultimate counterattack would of course be - a crusade

With England onboard we could take Constanstinople - probably anyway. If Spain hadn't abandoned us then a dash to Egypt could have been interesting. The main difficulties with that are:
1) England can't really travel by sea in any safety
2) The cities there are quite clustered so that any invasion as I speculated with for Naples would be easier to defend against.


The financial position deteriorated slightly this turn, income falling, mainly from taxes (indicating that it's my fault...). We have had a fall in army upkeep, despite the massive recruitment drive - mainly from the army lost in the fort I imagine, but also through attrition on my attacking forces.

I think the Spanish have struck back slightly on the merchant front

but overall merchant income is still up slightly. I'll be training some merchants to sit on Sicily soon, a raw recruit merchant should get 80+ a turn there, which isn't a bad return on a 500 outlay, plus with a chance to grow that. This turn, 'more ships' came before merchant recruitment.

The roads on Ajacco should be upgraded soon, which will boost trade slightly. Following on from that there are some upgrades on the cities and ports around the coast to come, so trade should boom in the next 10 turns (subject to keeping the relevant settlements). How many times have I said that in this write-up...? (admittedly trade income isn't in a bad shape at 26k, almost covering military upkeep)


A few chaps found themselves feeling a touch unwell. On the plus side, it was brief. A couple of Turkish assassins in the Balkans died, one I was following has headed out towards the English in the north west - quite a surprise really. I also sponsored a little sabotage on a small mosque - what larks.

More later...

[This message has been edited by SwampRat (edited 08-09-2011 @ 07:45 AM).]

posted 15 August 2011 02:31 EDT (US)     75 / 93       
Hey Swamp if you Ever Need A Sub email me with the details:
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