Quoted from Andalus:

(By the way, I have put Poeni Archers up on the Download section as a single unit modpack - it's not up yet, though.)

It is now.

And newsied.

I cannot wait to actually try it out.

[This message has been edited by SubRosa (edited 07-23-2008 @ 07:12 PM).]

It is now.

So much for 24 - 72 hours...

Quoted from SubRosa:

I like the name Poeni Archers. I am going to use a variation for my Carthaginian Chosen Slingers in ATW.

Tell you what, you can have Poeni Slingers, if I can put all your Barbarian units from ATW into AUP.

That's a fair exchange, right?

Good work Andalus! I like how you used the vanilla skins and models - it makes it fit in more.

Quoted from Andalus:

Tell you what, you can have Poeni Slingers, if I can put all your Barbarian units from ATW into AUP.

I already have Poeni Slingers (just not with that skin)...

But if you want to add the Barbarian units from ATW to AUP, go for it.

[This message has been edited by SubRosa (edited 07-23-2008 @ 08:36 PM).]

Unfortunately i can't download anything from filefront. Could you upload it here?

That was the original plan, but due to it's size (9.9MB), it exceeds the 8MB upload limit. That was why I put it on Filefront and the Poeni Archers here (I consider them, along with Thracian Swordsmen, to be AUP's signature unit).

I like how you used the vanilla skins and models - it makes it fit in more.

Thanks! That was the idea.

But if you want to add the Barbarian units from ATW to AUP, go for it.

I probably won't do all of them, and not straight away, but thanks for permission.
I knew you'd already pinched the name, but Poeni is a free word, you're welcome to it.

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 07-24-2008 @ 04:52 AM).]

This is cool! I'm loving these units, andalus, cataphract spearmen own.

Thanks, Monk.
That's actually an issue I'd like some feedback on: balancing.
I've tried to keep it balanced, but I think some units may be a little overpowered, specifically Cataphract and Gothic Spearmen, and possibly Hypaspists.

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 07-24-2008 @ 05:55 PM).]

The cataphract spearmen ctded the game...weird...

Well andulus, since I know every person who makes a new mod likes nothing more than seeing people play it, I took new units and old units (I got 10, AIs had 8) and had a massive battle. First I had my troops in a nice thracian formatio, next I watched. A three way battle erupted between julii, germans, and scythia.



First, germans and rome advanced on eachother, and scythia launched an ambush, too early! They got caught in between roman and german lines and were quickly routed. The julii could not stand against the berserkers, so after a while they routed.

While this was occuring, numidia tried to sneak up on me.



Bad choice, they charged their general straight into my front unit of greek hypaspists. I charged my general unit into them and a unit of numidian spearmen attacked my right unit of hypaspists. I moved the other unit of hypaspists to flank, but before that happened they routed because I had also sent my thracian swordsmen at them. That left the mounted archers, which tried to flank my hypaspists, but I caught them early and finished the job. While German berzerkers were still chasing scythian noble spears, Germania came at me with....twelve gothic spears, three generals bodyguard and three gothic cav? I sent my mounted archers at the berserkers, so The Germans were gone. While I had been doing that, pontus had routed Macedon, who had routed Carthage. Here are those heavy peltasts.



The scythed chariots were routed by mounted archers. (Those are really useful!) And the heavy pelasts, well I just had some fun and man-to-man combatted them. Victory. Unfortunatley I THough ctrl-alt-delete would have CTDed me, which it didn't, or else I would have had more pictures.

Ok well I'm going to be gone for one week-ten days so i'll post more after that, otherwise, great update Andulus! Especially making thrace more useful

I too have problems with cataphract spearman. Whenever I use them in a custom battle, I end up with this:

http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen1qo4.png

followed by

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen2zc8.png

Other units seem to work perfectly though.

Subrosa can you email it to me? I can't download from filefront.

Please?

Check your mail Danilh.

You did say please, and that is the magic word after all...

Subrosa can you email it to me?

I could have done that. You only had to ask. And say please...
Out of interest, why can't you download from Filefront?

Monk: Yes, I like to see people playing it. Glad you're enjoying it! I think I might give the Romans some Mounted Archers as well. Because they really need more good units...

The cataphract spearmen ctded the game

Oh... Damn. I know why. For some reason I copied the cataphract model and renamed it. It wasn't necessary but I did. Probably because it was one of the first units I made when I was new to modding. But I didn't include it.

I'll update it, but for now, this is easily fixable.
Find the descr_model_battle.txt entry in 'data' folder - its at the bottom of the file. Where it says
'models_unit\unit_east_cataphract_spearmen_400.CAS'
change it to 'models_unit\unit_east_heavy_cataphract_400.CAS'

And the same for _300, _200, _100

They will work then.

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 07-26-2008 @ 06:48 AM).]

Nice screenshots and interesting looking units you have there Andalus!

Just to point out, in both their full description and short description, Hypaspists are referred to as being used to guard the phlanks of a phalanx. Should this not be flanks?

Umm... perhaps. Thanks for pointing that out! I must have been tired.
I might leave it in just for fun.

Nice screenshots and interesting looking units you have there Andalus!

Oh, well, just something I knocked up in the back yard, you know...

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 07-26-2008 @ 02:17 PM).]

Did you check your email?

I did, yes, and I replied in the affirmative. Did you not get my reply?

Hmmm... another problem (its minor though).

When in the army selection window, scrolling over desert axeman results in the description having the separators used in the files to help differentiate units. Its really unimportant.

I did some fiddling with Egypt a while ago, it's probably a descendant of that. I'll have a look and put it right.

I'm away from home this week, though, so nothing will be updated until after.

I did, yes, and I replied in the affirmative. Did you not get my reply?

I'm afraid not. Send on some screenshots and cc SubRosa to make sure it arrives.

They are now up in the Gallery.

try using winrar's best option while zipping.that helps.

winzip is really worse than winrar.

There are some cool looking units there. Mostly the cataphract spearmen.

But do all these units keep the game balanced? I'm not sure 'bout the Romans having Elephants for example.

[edit]
By the way, how do you get so close to the actions (as in a few of thos pics) I've seen screenshtos like it before, with the 'camera' at about face level. When I zoom in however, the best I can do is hang over infantry's heads, more or less at the height of cavalrymen.

Is that a mod? Is there something wronf with my RTW? Something else? This has me bugging me for a while actually. Wanna get in the middle of the action.

[This message has been edited by Oolon Colluphid (edited 07-28-2008 @ 01:08 PM).]

I am also seeing a lot of Roman Armoured Bodyguards, and the reforms haven't happened yet... In fact, I saw a normal bodyguard and an armoured bodyguard in the same battle earlier.

But do all these units keep the game balanced? I'm not sure 'bout the Romans having Elephants for example.

I've tried to keep it as balanced as possible, but I know there are some issues. Cat Spearmen, for instance, are way too cheap for their power. When I update it some units will have their cost raised. I've also noticed Hypaspists are being trained far too soon, so they'll be bumped up to Large Cities.

As for Roman Elephants, I tried to balance it by making them only available post-Marian, not as good as War Elephants, and more expensive. Do you think I need to make them even more so? Maybe I could make them only recruitable in a couple of cities...

By the way, how do you get so close to the actions

Add the command line switch -movie_cam to the shortcut. Then, when you play replays, you can zoom in much closer. The controls can be a bit awkward but you get used to it. And no, you can't use it in battle.

I am also seeing a lot of Roman Armoured Bodyguards, and the reforms haven't happened yet... In fact, I saw a normal bodyguard and an armoured bodyguard in the same battle earlier.

Hmm... maybe that's a result of replacing the early general with the Equites Patricii model/skin. I think they're a little too powerful anyway. You're seeing the Praetorian type bodyguard? Strange. I'll check it out.

I don't really know frankly. I've never faced much elephant units. I've used them and war and especially armoured elephants seem to trample everything. Maybe they're not that strong. I would recommend making them only avalaible in regions that have elephants. Not only for realism and consistency, but also not to give the allready very strong Romans not too much power, and omly more after working for it.

Just my thoughts of course.
Cheers.

They already require the elephant resource to recruit them, and I see are only recruitable from a tier 5 stable. So these are going to be rare little gems.

I also see they can only be recruited pre-Marian reforms. I think you ought to change that Andalus. If the Romans have their hands on a city with a tier 5 stable, it means they have an Imperial Palace, and that means the Marian Reforms...

Well gallig cavalry dont work...

So these are going to be rare little gems.

That's the intent, anyway. I don't want them spammed.

I also see they can only be recruited pre-Marian reforms. I think you ought to change that Andalus.

Pre-Marian? Whoops. I suppose it all hinges on that one word: 'not'.

Well gallig cavalry dont work...

What exactly doesn't work? If you don't tell me, there's nothing I can do.

i like - a lot - that this mod keeps to the spirit of the RTW vanilla game, which focuses more on interest than anything else.

many people try to put more realistic units in to muted success (spanish javelin cavalry), or boldly fantastic units in (uber hoplites riding dragons)that take the fun out. This seems to consider very nicely the effects that the units will have in battle.

one concern of mine is the equites unit. firstly, there was no such thing as a peasant horseman in italy, nor was there such a thing as good cavalry - the original equites already represented the whole of republican horsemen. that however is irrelevant for my above point, what's bothersome is that i can't see them filling a gap in the game. republican rome doesn't need better cavalry - equites are already too common and frankly too effective!

Nice work Andalus. Impressive. Didn't a previous sig say that you'd stopped work on this? If so, good perserverance. It's inspirational when a friend who only now says he's clueless with computers is doing your animations

Ah, but I digress. You've done good work and taken good screenshots. I can't see many problems with the design about to pop up.

I like the way you've gotten rid of some faction's weaknesses, but also somehow kept the game somewhat balanced (I'm judging by the unit selection here).

Quoted from Sr James:

one concern of mine is the equites unit. firstly, there was no such thing as a peasant horseman in italy, nor was there such a thing as good cavalry - the original equites already represented the whole of republican horsemen. that however is irrelevant for my above point, what's bothersome is that i can't see them filling a gap in the game. republican rome doesn't need better cavalry - equites are already too common and frankly too effective!

I am not sure I would say that there were no good cavalry in Italy, it is just that given how the landscape was they were never plentiful, and the Romans had a tendency of facing opponents with cavalry that was simply outstanding. For example, Numidians are going to make anyone fighting them look bad in comparison.

What I think would be interesting for the Romans would be to create a cavalry auxilia unit(s) to reflect their habit of recruiting others to do their horsework. Gallic and German cavalry being very common. You could just use the Barbarian Cavalry as it is and give it to the Romans. Maybe have a tweaked up version with mail shirts and call them Chosen Auxiliary Cavalry.

Gallic cavalry ctd when is going in battle whit them...

i think merc units sorta fill the auxiliary role, and benefit from having a recruitment zone (if not a faction requirement). something like the RTR areas takes a bit more time than a typical unit pack

...equites are already too common and frankly too effective!

Well, the fact that Equites Patricii are only available from a Huge City Stables means that if they are seen at all, they won't be taking up a huge part of the Roman cavalry wing. I appreciate that all cavalry were noble in some way (Hence 'Equestrian' class), but these are just the creme de la creme.

What I think would be interesting for the Romans would be to create a cavalry auxilia unit(s) to reflect their habit of recruiting others to do their horsework. Gallic and German cavalry being very common. You could just use the Barbarian Cavalry as it is and give it to the Romans. Maybe have a tweaked up version with mail shirts and call them Chosen Auxiliary Cavalry.

Way ahead of you... (For once!)

Gallic cavalry ctd when is going in battle whit them...

Have you checked that the new model was copied in as well? If everything is as it should be, I see no reason why it shouldn't work. Maybe a corrupted download?

Anyone else having this problem?

Oh, and thanks, Gallow and SrJames

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 07-30-2008 @ 09:58 AM).]

How about adding some new units to this, I have some ideas.

Roman Armoured Hoplites: These armured hoplites will be like the Greek Armoured Hoplites, except like how many try to copy the roman legionaires, they won't be as good. The armour could go with teh faction, purple for SPQR, red for the Julii, blue for the Scipii, and green for the Brutii. DO NOT, that's right, DO NOT give the romans horse archers. They will be so overpowered and have everything. Infact, maybe you could take away the Urban Cohorts? Normal: 40 units, Two Turns, 893 denarii
(10 attack, 19 defense, 5 charge can form phalnx, can sap, good morale, well armoured)

Scythian Cataphracts: These cataphracts were introduced with the xgm mod, and since scythia is a calvary based faction, they should get these. They would have an orange sarmation rider, and maybe used for a general's bodyguard. Normal Size: 27 2 turns (same cash as normal phracts) (same stats)

Dacian Armoured Dogs: Now honestly this isn't my best idea...but it'll be something that'll make people stop going Yawn...Dacians. They would be something like berserkers and incendiary pigs, except they don't die walking around. When these dogs are let go, they kill anything, but unlike when things are amok, aren't easily killed. Normal Size: 20 (10 holders, 10 dogs) 2 turns(1200 denarii) (holders, A: 7 CH: 2 D: 14) Dogs: A: 19 CH:6 D: 16) Scare calvary and elephants. Bonus in woods or snow. Excellent morale. Bonus fighting calvary. Can go extremely berserk.


Another thing, Egyptian Hypatysts. The Egyptians had Alexander as their king and are greek.

Spanish Assassins: Like most assassins, they are not well armoured so to not attract attention. Unlike most assassins, these men work in a small group and have a deadly strike, used for flanking, they can be a deadly force, but keep them away from calvary. Normal Size: 10
Attack: 23 Defense: 7 Charge: 6 Turns: 3 Denarii: 2300

Kind of looks like a Spanish Arcani...oh well, these are my ideas, hope you might include them!
~Monk

[This message has been edited by Monkcrazy5 (edited 08-03-2008 @ 06:09 PM).]

Hmm... a few good ideas there. I'm working on some new units right now and I might include a couple.
I'd already considered a Scythian Cataphract unit actually. It shouldn't be too hard as I believe there is already a cat horse model for Scythia.

Not too sure about the Roman Hoplites. I've already given Triarii phalanx, as they did copy Greek warfare in the early Republican era, but this was phased out as the power of the phalanx declined. As for the Egyptians, I think people prefer the fantastical side of them. I'm aware I haven't done anything new for them yet, though.

The same for the Dacians. An improved dogs unit? Perhaps. I think I should give them something. Maybe SubRosa's Chosen Falxmen. Maybe Horse Archers. Or would that be too many HA factions? I should keep some diversity.

DO NOT give the romans horse archers.

Ohh, but I've already a nice new texture for them...
I was thinking of limiting them to recruitment in native HA lands.

Well then you should make trarii before and after reforms. And maybe different hypatists for egypt? like a nile spearman head, chainmail, chainskirt, an egypt shield and a longsword?

I was thinking something along those lines for Egypt. The problem is what you suggest would require modelling, and I am purely a skinner. I work with what I've got.

chainskirt

Technically it's a kilt the Egyptians wore, but that's irrelevant.

Lucky for you, we have plenty of modellers here, Subrosa could help you do it or even do it for you. And then all you need is a basic design to build off of, which I have here.



I spent a little time of paint making a basic idea, the hypaspist sword and shield with the double icon. I took the leader of the nile spears, and used his torso and head for the top. I drew in the kilt...chainskirt...W/E and the sandals.

Hope this helps
~Monk

Actually I was thinking more like this:

Any of those take your fancy, Monk? Do you want Pharoah's Axemen, Heavy Axemen, or Nile Guards? (With swords instead of spears and maybe a new shield)

By the way, I definitely made the early Roman general too powerful:


Also, I don't think I mentioned,

Spanish Assassins

I'll have those, thanks. I'm working on them right this minute, in fact.

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 08-04-2008 @ 04:13 PM).]

What about desert axethrowers?

Quoted from Danilh:

What about desert axethrowers?

You did not know? Only women and vikings can throw axes in RTW.

Ah, but this is AUP, not RTW, or ATW, or indeed anything ending in TW.

Not a bad idea, Danilh. Heavy/Pharoah's Axemen could have a throwing axe too...

[This message has been edited by Andalus (edited 08-04-2008 @ 07:27 PM).]

Do you know how to fix a problem with LOD, for some reason now all my romans are stuck on low detail while the enemy and mercenary units are on the right level...

Roman spearman are called Lancearii, they are familiar with Greek hoplites.
What about Greek fire raisers(fire blowing golden lion headed siege weapons)
And Roman Rorarii.
Rorarii were soldiers which formed the final lines, or else provided a reserve thereby, in the ancient pre-Marian Roman army. They may have been used with the triarii in battle near the final stages of fighting, since they are recorded as being located at the rear of the main battle formation. (Note that the saying "Going to the Triarii" means that something has gone to the bitter end - as in reached the final line.)

They may have been similar in role to the accensi, acting as supernumeraries and filling the places of fallen soldiers as a battle or campaign wore on, or they may have been skirmishers akin to velites. Unfortunately, the evidence is so limited that it is difficult to understand what direct role the rorarii may have had, if any, in fighting. It seems most likely that they were not part of the line in the same way as triarii, principes and hastati were.
Dromedarii, Roman camel riders.They were developed to take the place of horses where horses were not common. They were also very successful against enemy horses, as the smell of the camel is absolutely repulsive to a horse and will quickly make them reluctant to enter battle or even stay in the immediate area. So you can put a "horse being afraid of camel" trigger, some what like elephants are afraid of pigs and dogs.

Do I detect some ideas stolen from moi?

Mehbeh! (but i'm not sure)