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Topic Subject: Holy Roman Party XVII: Nanu Nanu

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Punic Hebil
Centurion
(id: Punic Hoplite)

posted 17 May 2013 00:12 EDT (US)

The Man with the Laughs

Gooooooooood-byyyyyyye Vietnaaaaam! That's right, I'm history... I'm outta here. I got the lucky ticket home, baby. Rollin, rollin, rollin'... keep them wagons rollin', rawhide! Yeah, that's right... the final Adrian Cronauer broadcast... and this one is brought to you by our friends at the Pentagon. Remember the people who brought you Korea? That's right, the U.S. Army. If it's being done correctly, here or abroad, it's probably not being done by the Army.

In honor of Robin Williams, I've decided to forsake the rules and simple post a lot of what made him special to us: his humor and ability to make us laugh!!

Genie: [turns into a cheerleader] Rick 'em, rack 'em, rock 'em, rake! Stick that sword into that snake!
Jafar: You stay out of this!
Genie: [Weakly] Jafar, Jafar, he's our man; if he can't do it, great!

When Christopher Reeve was in the hospital after his accident, Robin came to visit him. Reeve said this about that surprise visit:

Then, at an especially bleak moment, the door flew open and in hurried a squat fellow with a blue scrub hat and a yellow surgical gown and glasses, speaking in a Russian accent. He announced that he was my proctologist, and that he had to examine me immediately...it was Robin Williams...for the first time since the accident, I laughed. My old friend had helped me know that somehow I was going to be okay.

When Stephan Spielberg was filming "Schindler's List", Robin would call him to cheer him up. I think I only called him once, maybe twice. I called him when I was representing People for the Valdheimers Association. A society devoted to helping raise money to help older Germans who had forgotten everything before 1945. I remember him laughing and going 'thank you.'"

WARNING: Language

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Winners of the ICC Championship:
100: Awesome Eagle
476: Pitt
500: Hannibal the Conqueror
793: EnemyofJupitor
1066: EnemyofJupitor
1389: Awesome Eagle
1453: Awesome Eagle
1500: Punic Hebil
1789: Jax
1914: EnemyofJupitor
2000: Jetkill Fastmurder
2500:

[This message has been edited by Terikel Grayhair (edited 12-13-2014 @ 02:35 PM).]

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Replies:

Pitt
Tribunus Laticlavius

posted 25 July 2013 05:24 EDT (US) 451 / 2504

There have been quite a few different names though. Finding a 'normal' name that hasn't been used before isn't too easy. William, Stephen, Henry, Richard, John, Edward, James, Charles, George. If we add Scottish kings we have Robert, David, Malcolm, Duncan, Macbeth, Kenneth, Donald, and Alexander.

Wiki pegs the Civil List at �7m, which means unless I'm misunderstanding having a royal family costs us �7m a year? That doesn't seem a lot in the grand scheme of things, but on the other hand it's �7m which is a lot of money. If we're going for things as flaky as "tradition and inspiration" I'm on the fence as to whether or not �7m represents value for the country as a whole.

Looking at the Civil List is misleading. It doesn't include all the costs of maintaining a monarchy and the buildings etc, which amounts to a bit over �40m per year. Most of it goes to salaries and the upkeep of buildings, which would have to be spent whether or not there was a monarchy. Maintaining a head of state, whether monarchical or republican, costs money.

The Civil List is provided as part of an arrangement whereby the monarch surrenders her income from lands she owns. The arrangement has been around since the accession of George III in 1760. The reenue from those Crown lands is now over �200m, about four times greater than the cost of maintaining the monarchy, and about 30 times greater than the Civil List, which has declined in real terms over the last decade. The Treasury would not otherwise be entitled to those Crown revenues. The public makes a profit off the monarchy.

"Into the face of the young man who sat on the terrace of the Hotel Magnifique at Cannes there had crept a look of furtive shame, the shifty, hangdog look which announces that an Englishman is about to talk French." - P.G. Wodehouse, The Luck of the Bodkins

[This message has been edited by Pitt (edited 07-25-2013 @ 06:07 AM).]

EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus

posted 25 July 2013 06:02 EDT (US) 452 / 2504

That's the argument I was going to say. There's also the wonderful thing that if the monarch is pretty good, like Liz, then we can take pride for having a decent head of state. If they're rubbish, we can shrug and go "Hey, we didn't vote for a shitty head of state. America." I'd much rather have Charles as king than some public school boy git that pretends to be like the rest of us to get votes that would clearly describe the next 30 presidents should we switch to a Republican system.

Another upside is that the head if state is less likely to do something stupid diplomatically if they've been, say, raised their whole life for the role. And if they do, well, they have the blood of Philip in their veins so it'll be awesome.

Do agree this royal baby stuff is waaaaay OTT but I don't think that's Harry's fault.
And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You

Jax
HG Monument
(id: Jax Omen)

posted 25 July 2013 07:10 EDT (US)     453 / 2504

It doesn't include all the costs of maintaining a monarchy and the buildings etc, which amounts to a bit over �40m per year.
Yeah I gathered it didn't include that, but I also didn't make an effort to find out how much it actually costs to do so - like you say, it would need doing anyway.
The public makes a profit off the monarchy.
Right, well I think that answers the original question of "is it worth it" pretty well.
house won this

Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)

posted 25 July 2013 07:30 EDT (US)     454 / 2504

The Crown Estate's profits are put into the public purse, after a portion of it is used to pay for the Civil List, the upkeep of the royal household. Although the Crown Estate is merely entrusted to the royal family, not owned by it, it provides all their income and adds a substantial amount of money to the government budget as well. This isn't counting the less easily quantified economic benefit of tourism. People don't usually visit the UK just for the royal family, but I've taken enough foreign exchange students to London to realise they do get quite interested in it, wanting to see Buckingham Palace, etc.

The only real argument against the Royal Family is one of elitism, but, given the socioeconomic background of most of our political leaders (excepting the PMs between Harold Wilson and John Major inclusive), I don't think it makes a difference, it's not like a hypothetical President would be any different to that of our current or previous political leaderships on this front.

It's difficult to work out how to solve this. To be fair to the universities that provide most of our political leadership (basically Oxbridge), they do make an effort in terms of equal opportunities and widening participation, but in my opinion, the problem is even earlier than that. In Kensington & Chelsea, about 85% of young people go to university. Where I live, it's about 30-35%. Are people from Nottingham any stupider than people from Kensington & Chelsea? No, of course not. I don't believe in equality of outcome, but I do believe in equality of opportunity. To me anyway, the main thing is that people from my area probably don't have anything like the opportunities or support that people in Chelsea do. My old school was one of the best Comprehensives in Nottingham, but it was slightly below national average in terms of results. I couldn't say how to solve this, but that's what I think the problem is
But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy

Jax
HG Monument
(id: Jax Omen)

posted 25 July 2013 07:46 EDT (US)     455 / 2504

People don't usually visit the UK just for the royal family, but I've taken enough foreign exchange students to London to realise they do get quite interested in it, wanting to see Buckingham Palace, etc.
This always seemed like bollocks. France has no royal family yet I'm reasonably sure the Palace of Versailles attracts thousands of visitors. As mentioned above - our heritage and palaces wouldn't suddenly disappear just because we have no monarch.
house won this

EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus

posted 25 July 2013 11:05 EDT (US)     456 / 2504

This always seemed like bollocks. France has no royal family yet I'm reasonably sure the Palace of Versailles attracts thousands of visitors. As mentioned above - our heritage and palaces wouldn't suddenly disappear just because we have no monarch.
Versailles is beautiful, though- a carefully sculpted building that succeeded at its primary function to impress so well it kicks damn near every other palace in Europe in the arse.

Windsor Castle is OK, because it still looks decently castle-y, but take away an actual real life monarch living in them and Buckingham Palace and the other Royal residences would lose out heavily because they're cobbled together over hundreds of years, and most improvements are for function over impression.
Versailles, and Palaces such as in Vienna and Istanbul were built with a very different emphasis than our British royal residences, and they look a bit rubbish in comparison.
And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You

Edorix
High King of Britain

posted 25 July 2013 15:14 EDT (US)     457 / 2504

It's difficult to work out how to solve this. To be fair to the universities that provide most of our political leadership (basically Oxbridge), they do make an effort in terms of equal opportunities and widening participation, but in my opinion, the problem is even earlier than that. In Kensington & Chelsea, about 85% of young people go to university. Where I live, it's about 30-35%. Are people from Nottingham any stupider than people from Kensington & Chelsea? No, of course not. I don't believe in equality of outcome, but I do believe in equality of opportunity. To me anyway, the main thing is that people from my area probably don't have anything like the opportunities or support that people in Chelsea do. My old school was one of the best Comprehensives in Nottingham, but it was slightly below national average in terms of results. I couldn't say how to solve this, but that's what I think the problem is
It is not about support. Those who are able, and want to, make their way without support. I think it is fundamentally a problem of culture. Nearly everyone who applies to university gets into one; if that is only the case for 30% of people in your area, it is because only 30% apply. And culture is something that is very difficult to change; you must either clamp down on it and hope you have the strength to hold it until it gives in, or it must be chosen by those who would be changed.

Also, I will dare to say that people from Nottingham may be on average stupider than people from Kensington - obviously not for genetic reasons, but again a matter of culture. If and where there are such problems, that is the cause. Undervaluing education and intelligence for intelligence's sake.
[This message has been edited by Lord Eddie (edited 07-25-2013 @ 03:15 PM).]

Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)

posted 25 July 2013 17:25 EDT (US)     458 / 2504

I probably agree with that. I used to dumb down my work at school as to not draw attention to myself. Secondary School was 5 years of trying not to be noticed. I know a lot of people, some of them good friends of mine, who think I'm mental for wanting to do an Arts degree. Aside from the fact History is one of the few things I'm any good at, that does show the idea of learning being a bit useless in the minds of many
But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy

DarthDovah101
Legionary

posted 25 July 2013 17:51 EDT (US)     459 / 2504

Can't say I agree with your reasoning that most people get into university. Only a small percentage of Medicine, Dentistry and Vetinary Medicine applicants actually get a place.

Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)

posted 25 July 2013 18:37 EDT (US)     460 / 2504

That's medical school though. It's very, very competitive because it leads to a certain well-paid and highly respected professional job. Most people applying for normal degrees get in, even if it's to one of our less 'solid' establishments
But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy

Pitt
Tribunus Laticlavius

posted 25 July 2013 22:01 EDT (US)     461 / 2504

You can't take a high demand course with high barriers to entry and extrapolate to all degrees at every university.

That would be like saying I can't have a car because I can't afford a Rolls Royce Phantom.
"Into the face of the young man who sat on the terrace of the Hotel Magnifique at Cannes there had crept a look of furtive shame, the shifty, hangdog look which announces that an Englishman is about to talk French." - P.G. Wodehouse, The Luck of the Bodkins

Scenter102
Legionary

posted 26 July 2013 00:53 EDT (US)     462 / 2504

Personally I don't try very hard at school outside of school. And I'm still considered a person that tries even though I slept through history class (99% in the class-don't get me started).

EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus

posted 26 July 2013 03:13 EDT (US)     463 / 2504

I still think we need a "Humanities" degree classification. Geography and history are pretty different from wishy washy English and goodness knows what else- much more analytical and and emphasis on weighting evidence. It does those subjects a disservice, and we could see more people go for history or geography in the future if they got a "better" degree out of it.
And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You

Jax
HG Monument
(id: Jax Omen)

posted 26 July 2013 04:17 EDT (US)     464 / 2504

Do employers really look at "BA" part of "History BA"? Genuine question.
house won this

Earl Scruffles
Legionary
(id: generalscruff)

posted 26 July 2013 06:13 EDT (US)     465 / 2504

The difference between History and English Lit is enormous. I am currently studying both. In History, it's much more solid and you can't get away with not using evidence. In English Lit, all you need to do is cherry-pick things from the text to back up your view. Although you can do this in History, it doesn't usually work as well. When I write my essays, I tend to come at the subject from 2/3 points of view, link them together and then draw a conclusion as I write it. Well, it's worked so far. I certainly don't like being tarred with the same brush as philosophy, media studies, etc.

I do a lot of history out of college, but not much else academic-wise.
But I won't go to England due to the prescence of scruffy in shottingham. - Scenter102
This is Scruff we are talking about. I can't think of anything I don't see Scruff doing just for the hell of it. - Agrippa 271
The cake was made by Scruffy and it was... a rude shape. - Liam
monkey in a suit on a cycle - Scenter102 describing Scruffy

Jax
HG Monument
(id: Jax Omen)

posted 26 July 2013 06:19 EDT (US)     466 / 2504

It is not about support. Those who are able, and want to, make their way without support. I think it is fundamentally a problem of culture. Nearly everyone who applies to university gets into one; if that is only the case for 30% of people in your area, it is because only 30% apply. And culture is something that is very difficult to change; you must either clamp down on it and hope you have the strength to hold it until it gives in, or it must be chosen by those who would be changed.
Aren't you arguing the same things? Culture/Support/Whatever - if grades are particularly worse in one (less affluent) part of the country then obviously their is a problem. "Culture is hard to change" is a total cop out and is absolutely letting down a chunk of the 70% who don't apply for whatever reason.
house won this

EnemyofJupitor
HG Alumnus Superbus

posted 26 July 2013 07:00 EDT (US)     467 / 2504

Poverty is the overriding factor: a recent study found that it's a greater stunting effect on a child's development (including intelligence) than taking crack when pregnant- what they were originally studying.
And I shall go Softly into the Night Taking my Dreams As will You

Pitt
Tribunus Laticlavius

posted 26 July 2013 11:09 EDT (US)     468 / 2504

Parental and peer attitudes to education are also a huge factor in the likelihood of undertaking tertiary study. There's obviously overlap between that and poverty.
"Into the face of the young man who sat on the terrace of the Hotel Magnifique at Cannes there had crept a look of furtive shame, the shifty, hangdog look which announces that an Englishman is about to talk French." - P.G. Wodehouse, The Luck of the Bodkins
[This message has been edited by Pitt (edited 07-26-2013 @ 11:10 AM).]

Edorix
High King of Britain

posted 26 July 2013 11:48 EDT (US)     469 / 2504

I think you may be being a little hard on English. Yes, arts are very different from humanities/social sciences. But for some reason, English graduates are the most likely to be in work after they graduate (according to my careers advisor of a couple of years ago ).

To look at this issue from the other direction... Is the percentage of university entrants a very good measure of regional social advancement? If the culture of the region is that university is not really worth it, who are we to insist otherwise... It is true that on average employers value relevant apprenticeships to "a degree", and if your sole aim is "work" then a specific vocational degree is more sensible than any humanity.

SwampRat
M2TW Ladder Leader

posted 26 July 2013 15:32 EDT (US)     470 / 2504

obviously not for genetic reasons
Most people are always very coy about genetics, especially if it veers towards race, and intelligence (possibly because the people that are happy to say it publicly tend to be bigotted whatsits) - but relatively happy to do so about most other attributes.

I'm not saying that there are genetic issues behind northerners being a bit daft, or that genetics/nature would clearly have a more significant role than anything else - but why shouldn't they play a part?

Side stepping a long way, dog breeds tend to have various character attributes. I imagine treatment of them (e.g. training, abuse) makes significantly more difference but it doesn't mean they're all equal in all ways just because they're dogs.
Virescit vulnere virtus
Sicily HotseatA campaign (finished)
AI compilation mod

Edorix
High King of Britain

posted 26 July 2013 16:09 EDT (US)     471 / 2504

*mumble mumble* recent genetic studies *mumble mumble* inbred Northerners *mumble mumble*

Unfortunately Scruffy's Midlands are genetically indistinguishable from the rest of the SE. The lowlands of SE Britain have apparently been very conducive to regional population mixing.

Aside from that I do not believe in a genetic component because it is so obviously superficial and cultural.

Legion Of Hell
Centurion

posted 27 July 2013 18:17 EDT (US)     472 / 2504

Been watching The Last Leg on the computer: pretty brilliant and refreshing: mainly because the lead presenter has one leg.

But no its funny as hell.
General Rawlinson- This is most unsatisfactory. Where are the Sherwood Foresters? Where are the East Lancashires on the right?

Brigadier-General Oxley- They are lying out in No Man's Land, sir. And most of them will never stand again.

Two high ranking British generals discussing the fortunes of two regiments after the disastrous attack at Aubers Ridge on the 9th May 1915.

Edorix
High King of Britain

posted 28 July 2013 04:48 EDT (US)     473 / 2504

Can someone email me an unmodded RTW-BI map_regions.tga file? I screwed up my backup but really don't want to reinstall the whole thing.

Pitt
Tribunus Laticlavius

posted 28 July 2013 06:07 EDT (US)     474 / 2504

Done.
"Into the face of the young man who sat on the terrace of the Hotel Magnifique at Cannes there had crept a look of furtive shame, the shifty, hangdog look which announces that an Englishman is about to talk French." - P.G. Wodehouse, The Luck of the Bodkins

Edorix
High King of Britain

posted 28 July 2013 09:38 EDT (US)     475 / 2504

Very kind of you, thanks for taking the time.

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