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Topic Subject:The Burgundians
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Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 17 March 2011 11:30 EDT (US)         
Besides making good wine, these Germanic tribesmen proved to be major pains in the ass of the Franks, Ostrogoths, and Lombards as well. Thankfully, they settled and after being crushed a time or two, concentrated on making wine instead of problems.

Now open for discussion- the Burgundians.

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Somewhere over the EXCO Rainbow
Master Skald, Order of the Silver Quill, Guild of the Skalds
Champion of the Sepia Joust- Joust I, II, IV, VI, VII, VIII
AuthorReplies:
GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 13 April 2011 01:31 EDT (US)     51 / 72       
I don't like dux provincia because it sounds like a regional governor job. Dux Gallorum?

BTW, is it possible to make Burgundian Cavalry both in the Burgundian regular roster (recruitable anywhere) and in the local AoR?

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 13 April 2011 02:35 EDT (US)     52 / 72       
Sure. I did it with my Vikings. You have two owners of the EDU entry- one a faction, the other a merc unit. The merc unit has a recruiting pool of that province. easy.

To make it a recruitable unit, put every faction in the EDU unit entry, and then in the EDB entry, require hidden_resource (city). It is a hell of a lot of tedious work, but it can be done.

|||||||||||||||| A transplanted Viking, born a millennium too late. |||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Too many Awards to list in Signature, sorry lords...|||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Listed on my page for your convenience and envy.|||||||||||||||||
Somewhere over the EXCO Rainbow
Master Skald, Order of the Silver Quill, Guild of the Skalds
Champion of the Sepia Joust- Joust I, II, IV, VI, VII, VIII
Drakontos
Legionary
posted 13 April 2011 05:21 EDT (US)     53 / 72       
Mmm, it just seemed more accurate. Given that the Burgundians did actually end with the Roman province of, well, Provincia (Modern Provence), for a while there.

PROCRASTINATE NOT ˇ JAMAIS ARRIERE
GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 13 April 2011 06:51 EDT (US)     54 / 72       
You should have said so. Not everybody knows the Roman name for Provence was Provincia.

Still, in the short run I'll be happy with Comes Provincia, although in the long run, if the player's Burgundian empire stretches from Gaul to Italy and Spain and etc, that title might become outdated - but we could put it down as an honorific one, like so many of Rome's regimental titles. But I'm going with Comes Provincia because it could bridge the later coming of the Counts of Provence.

Faction Leader: Rex Burgundiorum
Faction Heir: Comes Provincia

Any comments on the faction symbol? I proposed a white "Burgundian" cross on the vanilla purple field.

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Drakontos
Legionary
posted 13 April 2011 07:18 EDT (US)     55 / 72       
I think I'd probably just woken up. My apologies.

I'm pretty sure some of our other titles were equally small scale. Consider it Prince of Wales/Principe de Asturias style stuff - a title for the heir.

I shall think on the flag.

PROCRASTINATE NOT ˇ JAMAIS ARRIERE
GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 13 April 2011 10:25 EDT (US)     56 / 72       
Hope you finish thinking soon my friend.

RE: Burgundian Cavalry & Cohortes Gallorum

Since historically the Burgundians weren't quite militarily dominant like their Frankish neighbors soon became, but since we would also like to give them a shot at fending off the Franks for as long as they can, it seems prudent to give them a regional bonus in the form of the Cohortes Gallorum, so that the Burgundians would enjoy some sort of a home-court advantage in Gaul. Once out of it, though, they would've lost that particular Gallo-Roman bonus, but they'd retain their traditional strength in heavy cavalry, which is why Burgundian Cavalry stays in the regular roster. Strong in Gaul, weaker in the rest of the world.

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Alpha211
Legionary
posted 13 April 2011 12:26 EDT (US)     57 / 72       
I agree with the Burg Cav & CG idea of GKA's I think it would be good to have an advantage against the Franks in their own homeland but get slightly weaker outside.

Also I like the White Cross on Purple flag idea
Kilos of Thermon
Legionary
posted 19 April 2011 16:43 EDT (US)     58 / 72       
Well, instead of purple, why don't we use Burgundy? (a color)

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Cattle die, kinsmen die, the self must also die. I know one thing that never dies: the fate of the honored dead. Hávamál, Gestaţáttr, #77.
Seneca Monachus
Legionary
posted 20 April 2011 09:08 EDT (US)     59 / 72       
Yes i wanted to post that too, but you got ahaid of me. I am also in favor of a burgundy flag.
Maybe we can make arrow tops/spear heads of the red cross in the original.
Something like this:

(its about the idea, not the looks)

"Wise men speak because they have something to say: Fools because they have to say something" - Plato

[This message has been edited by Seneca Monachus (edited 04-20-2011 @ 09:08 AM).]

Kilos of Thermon
Legionary
posted 20 April 2011 21:18 EDT (US)     60 / 72       
ok, I like it.

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Cattle die, kinsmen die, the self must also die. I know one thing that never dies: the fate of the honored dead. Hávamál, Gestaţáttr, #77.
GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 21 April 2011 06:21 EDT (US)     61 / 72       
Burgundian Cavalry could go the Rohan path and be swift "punching" cavalry. (thinking of a way to distinguish them from the Frankish heavies here)
(its about the idea, not the looks)
Indeed.

I don't dislike the idea, but the looks didn't do much in fully convincing me (sorry Seneca). Still, I don't have a better idea than this, so we'll leave it at this? White triple-arrow-heads cross on a burgundy field?

So, a summary:

Faction Leader: Rex Burgundiorum
Faction Heir: Comes Provinciae (turns out Comes Provincia isn't sound Latin)

ROSTER:

Town Hall:
Tier 1 - Barbarian Peasants

Infantry:
Tier 2 - Levy Spearmen
Tier 3 - Foresters (light 2-handed axemen, copied from the Alemanni)
Tier 3 - Spear Comitatus
Tier 3 - Noble Sons (borrowed from the Saxons - rich sons well-equipped, but mediocre really)
Tier 4 - Axe Comitatus
Tier 4 - Cohortes Gallorum* (elite sword-and-spear Gallo-Roman soldiers. AoR)
Tier 5 - Dismounted Nobles

Cavalry:
Tier 2 - Raiders (skirmish cav)
Tier 3 - Mounted Warband (generic light spear cav)
Tier 4 - Burgundian Cavalry (Rohan-style flexible "punch" cav. Regular and AoR)
Tier 4 - Mounted Nobles (heavy cav)
Tier 5 - Warlord

Missile & Siege:
Tier 2 - Skirmishers
Tier 3 - Archers
Tier 4 - Ballistae
Tier 4 - Chosen Archers
Tier 5 - Onagers

Special Retinue Characters/ Items (available from Large Town Hall onwards):
Liber Constitutionum sive Lex Gundobada (or just "Lex Gundobada") - The principal law code of the Burgundian people, this book contains a record of their customary laws, traditions, way of life, and the history of their kings. (+1 Influence, +2 to law)
Lex Romana Burgundionum - The separate law code written by the Burgundians for their Roman subjects. (-1 from unrest, +1 to law)
Gallo-Roman Noble* - (ideas?)

Faction Symbol: to be decided

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Kilos of Thermon
Legionary
posted 22 April 2011 00:03 EDT (US)     62 / 72       
Faction Symbol: Sword laying flat but slightly curving down in front of a jeweled wine glass.

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Cattle die, kinsmen die, the self must also die. I know one thing that never dies: the fate of the honored dead. Hávamál, Gestaţáttr, #77.
Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 22 April 2011 01:47 EDT (US)     63 / 72       
Good roster. Borrows a lot from the neighbors, but I consider that a good thing (it keeps the number of unique units down to making coding easier, while showign that the neighbors had some good units too).

I am curious to Kilos's suggestion. Care to pen one up?

|||||||||||||||| A transplanted Viking, born a millennium too late. |||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Too many Awards to list in Signature, sorry lords...|||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Listed on my page for your convenience and envy.|||||||||||||||||
Somewhere over the EXCO Rainbow
Master Skald, Order of the Silver Quill, Guild of the Skalds
Champion of the Sepia Joust- Joust I, II, IV, VI, VII, VIII
GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 22 April 2011 21:17 EDT (US)     64 / 72       
Now that you mention it, Terikel, I am actually concerned about the OG-VG warcry thing - wouldn't that double the number of unit slots occupied?

I think Kilos meant something like a jeweled glass in center stage preceded by a sword whose tip is pointed at the lower right.

[glass]
\
_\
__\
___\
____\

Get it?

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Kilos of Thermon
Legionary
posted 24 April 2011 20:35 EDT (US)     65 / 72       
Actually, I thought the sword should go the other way, but pretty much, yeah.

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Cattle die, kinsmen die, the self must also die. I know one thing that never dies: the fate of the honored dead. Hávamál, Gestaţáttr, #77.
eth689
Legionary
posted 30 April 2011 22:09 EDT (US)     66 / 72       
did the germans use a black eagle for their flag yet... i like the black eagle
GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 02 May 2011 06:43 EDT (US)     67 / 72       
I don't see a particularly striking connection between the German eagle and the Burgundians.

Kilos, a glass to represent Burgundian wine and the sword to keep them that warrior touch?

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Drakontos
Legionary
posted 06 May 2011 16:52 EDT (US)     68 / 72       
Historical accuracy ftw. It'll be unique, at the least, and the image I have in my head looks quite good, anyway. I'm picturing the faction colour much like it is in vanilla.

PROCRASTINATE NOT ˇ JAMAIS ARRIERE
GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 06 May 2011 22:19 EDT (US)     69 / 72       
Well I'm fine with it and it looks better than a mess of arrows.

Are we done for now?

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Drakontos
Legionary
posted 07 May 2011 04:08 EDT (US)     70 / 72       
Oui!

PROCRASTINATE NOT ˇ JAMAIS ARRIERE
GeneralKickAss
Legionary
posted 13 May 2011 22:55 EDT (US)     71 / 72       
Faction Leader: Rex Burgundiorum
Faction Heir: Comes Provinciae

ROSTER:

Town Hall:
Tier 1 - Barbarian Peasants

Infantry:
Tier 2 - Levy Spearmen
Tier 3 - Foresters (light 2-handed axemen, copied from the Alemanni)
Tier 3 - Spear Comitatus
Tier 3 - Noble Sons (borrowed from the Saxons - rich sons well-equipped, but mediocre really)
Tier 4 - Axe Comitatus
Tier 4 - Cohortes Gallorum* (elite sword-and-spear Gallo-Roman soldiers. AoR)
Tier 5 - Dismounted Nobles

Cavalry:
Tier 2 - Raiders (skirmish cav)
Tier 3 - Mounted Warband (generic light spear cav)
Tier 4 - Burgundian Cavalry (Rohan-style flexible "punch" cav. Regular and AoR)
Tier 4 - Mounted Nobles (heavy cav)
Tier 5 - Warlord

Missile & Siege:
Tier 2 - Skirmishers
Tier 3 - Archers
Tier 4 - Ballistae
Tier 4 - Chosen Archers
Tier 5 - Onagers

Special Retinue Characters/ Items (available from Large Town Hall onwards):
Liber Constitutionum sive Lex Gundobada - The principal law code of the Burgundian people, this book contains a record of their customary laws, traditions, way of life, and the history of their kings. (+1 Influence, +2 to law)
Lex Romana Burgundionum - The separate law code written by the Burgundians for their Roman subjects. (-1 from unrest, +1 to law)
Gallo-Roman Noble - (+1 Management)

Faction Symbol: Wine Glass in high-center and Sword laid diagonally below. Burgundy background. (duh)

"The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for." -Homer
"You see, this is what happens when you don't follow instructions, GKA..." -Edorix
Guild of the Skalds, Order of the Silver Quill, Apprentice Storyteller
Battle of Ilipa, 206BC - XI TWH Egil Skallagrimson Award

The word dyslexia was invented by Nazis to piss off kids with dyslexia.
Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 20 May 2011 02:58 EDT (US)     72 / 72       
Good enough. We are done here.

|||||||||||||||| A transplanted Viking, born a millennium too late. |||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Too many Awards to list in Signature, sorry lords...|||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||| Listed on my page for your convenience and envy.|||||||||||||||||
Somewhere over the EXCO Rainbow
Master Skald, Order of the Silver Quill, Guild of the Skalds
Champion of the Sepia Joust- Joust I, II, IV, VI, VII, VIII
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